0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/411 Thanks! 1 00:00:09,100 --> 00:00:10,749 Cool, thanks, everyone. 2 00:00:10,750 --> 00:00:11,750 So my name is Wil, 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,949 I am a computer science graduate 4 00:00:14,950 --> 00:00:16,510 student at the University of Washington 5 00:00:17,590 --> 00:00:19,659 and I have spent the last 6 00:00:19,660 --> 00:00:22,179 couple of false teaching computer science 7 00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:23,180 in Pyongyang. 8 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,119 I haven't so I didn't read it in a last 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,189 year when I got back, but I 10 00:00:30,190 --> 00:00:32,499 haven't really talked that much because 11 00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:35,289 the whole like issue around this country 12 00:00:35,290 --> 00:00:36,319 is extremely politicized. 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,570 It's very easy to sort of 14 00:00:39,670 --> 00:00:42,639 end up in this sort of large narrative 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,169 that that I don't really have much to 16 00:00:44,170 --> 00:00:46,329 contribute to. So the 17 00:00:46,330 --> 00:00:47,769 disclaimer is there's there's going to be 18 00:00:47,770 --> 00:00:49,989 nothing about this or about this. 19 00:00:51,220 --> 00:00:53,259 And this will be entirely be sort of 20 00:00:53,260 --> 00:00:55,209 like, what did I see when I was there? 21 00:00:55,210 --> 00:00:56,379 What were the students like that I was 22 00:00:56,380 --> 00:00:58,119 teaching and what was sort of like 23 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,279 consumer technology in terms 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,039 of desktops, mobile phones 25 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:04,628 and sort of what what what does 26 00:01:04,629 --> 00:01:05,680 technology look like there? 27 00:01:07,420 --> 00:01:09,219 So this is the campus I was at. 28 00:01:09,220 --> 00:01:10,959 It's the Pyongyang University of Science 29 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:13,359 and Technology, sort of in the southern 30 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,709 suburbs still within Pyongyang. 31 00:01:15,940 --> 00:01:18,039 The taller building is the 32 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:19,040 academic building, 33 00:01:20,290 --> 00:01:22,179 the two wings, our classrooms, the little 34 00:01:22,180 --> 00:01:23,439 middle connecting part is where the 35 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,509 professors offices work and then 36 00:01:25,510 --> 00:01:27,459 the smaller building next to it, which is 37 00:01:27,460 --> 00:01:29,859 still quite large, had the 38 00:01:29,860 --> 00:01:32,109 cafeteria, had the library 39 00:01:32,110 --> 00:01:34,239 and had an assembly hall. 40 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,729 And if off off picture is 41 00:01:36,730 --> 00:01:38,919 dorms, we both both 42 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,139 the students and the professors lived 43 00:01:41,140 --> 00:01:42,640 on campus while we were there. 44 00:01:45,130 --> 00:01:47,529 So at this point I'm probably like, 45 00:01:47,530 --> 00:01:49,059 if I was having a conversation, there'd 46 00:01:49,060 --> 00:01:51,099 be this question of, OK, so how how do 47 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:53,229 you get there? What what are Americans 48 00:01:53,230 --> 00:01:54,230 doing there? 49 00:01:55,630 --> 00:01:57,760 So I found a video online 50 00:01:58,810 --> 00:02:01,719 about this university being created and 51 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,989 I called emailed saying. 52 00:02:04,990 --> 00:02:06,759 I'm interested in teaching and somehow 53 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,619 that worked. I'm still I'm still not 54 00:02:08,620 --> 00:02:09,620 entirely sure myself. 55 00:02:11,950 --> 00:02:14,709 And so I ended up teaching 56 00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:17,109 classes in operating systems, focusing on 57 00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:18,759 Linux and Android, which was what they 58 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,279 were interested in, and then also an 59 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,349 introductory database's course, sort of 60 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:25,419 the mechanics of school. 61 00:02:28,930 --> 00:02:30,039 Which were fun. 62 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,959 So this is the lab that I was teaching 63 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,610 in. We had a classroom as well. 64 00:02:35,140 --> 00:02:37,239 And these are were my senior 65 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:38,679 undergrads who were taking the operating 66 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,089 systems class. You'll notice that they 67 00:02:40,090 --> 00:02:41,709 have computers and that they know how to 68 00:02:41,710 --> 00:02:43,780 use them. So we're off to a good start. 69 00:02:45,940 --> 00:02:47,379 I guess the other interesting part, 70 00:02:47,380 --> 00:02:49,449 though, is that there were these serve 71 00:02:49,450 --> 00:02:51,519 two banks of 16 computers 72 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,349 there on a land connected to each other, 73 00:02:53,350 --> 00:02:55,659 but they're not connected to anything 74 00:02:55,660 --> 00:02:58,059 else. So these students did not have 75 00:02:58,060 --> 00:02:59,769 access to the Internet. 76 00:02:59,770 --> 00:03:00,939 A lot of what they had learned were 77 00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:01,940 through books. 78 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,199 And so this was an interesting challenge. 79 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,339 So so I guess there's sort of three 80 00:03:09,340 --> 00:03:10,599 segments to the rest of the talk. 81 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,249 The first is going to be the network and 82 00:03:12,250 --> 00:03:14,799 access. What does Internet, Internet, 83 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,539 all of these things look like then? 84 00:03:16,540 --> 00:03:18,219 What do what's the desktop? 85 00:03:18,220 --> 00:03:19,869 What's the deal with this Red Star OS 86 00:03:19,870 --> 00:03:22,669 that they have? And then finally mobile. 87 00:03:22,670 --> 00:03:23,919 What's the deal with cell phones? 88 00:03:25,510 --> 00:03:27,549 So surprisingly, I had Internet access. 89 00:03:27,550 --> 00:03:28,550 That was nice. 90 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,779 There's sort of two players in the 91 00:03:31,780 --> 00:03:33,849 Internet industry 92 00:03:33,850 --> 00:03:34,869 in Pyongyang. 93 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:37,509 They're both joint ventures with foreign 94 00:03:37,510 --> 00:03:39,609 companies. So the building 95 00:03:39,610 --> 00:03:42,399 is I believe 96 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,919 that's that's the older iteration 97 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:46,319 of it. But currently that's called Star 98 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,549 or Joint Venture Corporation, which is a 99 00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:50,949 joint venture between the DPRK government 100 00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:52,899 and Thailand, a company based in 101 00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:53,979 Thailand. 102 00:03:53,980 --> 00:03:56,109 And they provide the fiber cables 103 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:57,789 into the country. 104 00:03:57,790 --> 00:04:00,489 So they manage the physical connection. 105 00:04:00,490 --> 00:04:02,050 They peer with China Unicom. 106 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,989 And so there was a fiber line going from 107 00:04:04,990 --> 00:04:07,359 a downtown office to the campus 108 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:08,360 where we got access. 109 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,219 And I guess there's a couple of 110 00:04:14,220 --> 00:04:15,659 things that are interesting. One is that 111 00:04:15,660 --> 00:04:18,449 I had access it was not filtered 112 00:04:18,450 --> 00:04:21,059 either by China or by 113 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:22,259 DPRK. 114 00:04:22,260 --> 00:04:24,389 However, there was a proxy that 115 00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:26,129 I had to go through that was at the 116 00:04:26,130 --> 00:04:27,449 campus level. 117 00:04:27,450 --> 00:04:29,399 So all requests were 118 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:31,769 authenticated. 119 00:04:31,770 --> 00:04:34,019 There was a squid authenticate proxy. 120 00:04:34,020 --> 00:04:35,339 You had to have a proxy authentication 121 00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:36,659 header. 122 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:38,699 So they knew every request was associated 123 00:04:38,700 --> 00:04:40,229 with my username and password. 124 00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:42,679 Um, the 125 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,549 the DPRK citizens. 126 00:04:44,550 --> 00:04:46,919 So the the undergrads did not have access 127 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,749 to the graduate students and the DPRK 128 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:49,949 professors who were there did have 129 00:04:49,950 --> 00:04:51,359 Internet access. 130 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,369 They had a filter, although I don't know 131 00:04:53,370 --> 00:04:54,749 the exact details, but I know that it was 132 00:04:54,750 --> 00:04:56,369 somewhat restrictive. 133 00:04:56,370 --> 00:04:58,589 So in addition to that and 134 00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:00,899 they had to go to a special room 135 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:02,069 in the 136 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:05,579 library area where there was 137 00:05:05,580 --> 00:05:07,529 a lab proctor who sort of would watch 138 00:05:07,530 --> 00:05:08,579 while you were doing research. 139 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:13,439 The other company of note is CareerLink, 140 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,749 which is a joint venture with 141 00:05:15,750 --> 00:05:17,549 Orascom, which is an Egyptian company. 142 00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:18,479 I think they've actually changed their 143 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,480 name. 144 00:05:19,830 --> 00:05:21,179 They provide the mobile service. 145 00:05:21,180 --> 00:05:23,849 You can buy a SIM card 146 00:05:23,850 --> 00:05:26,249 with either voice or 3G data. 147 00:05:26,250 --> 00:05:28,499 I did not because it is quite expensive. 148 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:30,689 It was 80 euros set up for 149 00:05:30,690 --> 00:05:32,449 voice and then another hundred and twenty 150 00:05:32,450 --> 00:05:34,439 eight euros to enable data, which gets 151 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,079 you 50 megabytes of data a month. 152 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:40,559 So not not quite what 153 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,869 we want, but but there were cases where, 154 00:05:42,870 --> 00:05:45,579 uh, I guess I would say Internet 155 00:05:45,580 --> 00:05:48,419 quite reliable power less reliable. 156 00:05:48,420 --> 00:05:50,669 So for that maybe day a week 157 00:05:50,670 --> 00:05:52,349 when you didn't have, like, intermittent 158 00:05:52,350 --> 00:05:54,059 power, it was nice to still have some 159 00:05:54,060 --> 00:05:56,159 connectivity and you 160 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,630 got that if you had wireless. 161 00:06:00,380 --> 00:06:01,380 Yeah, so I had access. 162 00:06:03,790 --> 00:06:05,230 So there's this Internet thing, 163 00:06:07,090 --> 00:06:09,219 there was not Internet at our campus, I 164 00:06:09,220 --> 00:06:10,929 was told that that was very difficult. 165 00:06:10,930 --> 00:06:12,309 They did not like to have physical 166 00:06:12,310 --> 00:06:13,629 locations that had both. 167 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:15,669 So there is sort of this sense of these 168 00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:16,869 should be our gapped and foreigners 169 00:06:16,870 --> 00:06:18,909 should not have access to the internal 170 00:06:18,910 --> 00:06:19,989 one. 171 00:06:19,990 --> 00:06:21,759 We visited Kim Il Sung University, which 172 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,939 is sort of the top university. 173 00:06:24,940 --> 00:06:28,269 This is also where a lot of the 174 00:06:28,270 --> 00:06:29,859 tour groups go. They've got this sort of 175 00:06:29,860 --> 00:06:31,719 flagship library that you may have seen 176 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,279 pictures of. It's where the tour groups 177 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:34,479 go and say, we saw people sitting in 178 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:35,739 front computers not seeming to know how 179 00:06:35,740 --> 00:06:36,740 to use them. 180 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,469 Those computers are on the quagmired 181 00:06:40,470 --> 00:06:42,069 national intranet. 182 00:06:42,070 --> 00:06:44,079 It's sort of guessed that there is 183 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,639 something like three thousand, five 184 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:46,749 thousand sites. 185 00:06:46,750 --> 00:06:48,369 The students were saying that like most 186 00:06:48,370 --> 00:06:50,319 companies that needed to do sort of 187 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,849 communication would likely have some sort 188 00:06:51,850 --> 00:06:53,979 of site, an email like access 189 00:06:53,980 --> 00:06:54,980 and be connected to this thing. 190 00:06:56,710 --> 00:06:58,509 I guess of note, one thing that you can 191 00:06:58,510 --> 00:07:00,549 see on sort of this nice Windows XP 192 00:07:00,550 --> 00:07:02,469 terminal in the library is that it's got 193 00:07:02,470 --> 00:07:04,799 its own DNS thing, the 194 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,089 the sort of small, but it's like 195 00:07:07,090 --> 00:07:09,279 last dot lab dot 196 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:10,779 something that you dot capi. 197 00:07:10,780 --> 00:07:12,879 And it's not a DNS record that 198 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,619 exists on the public Internet. 199 00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:15,970 And so they've got their own DNS system. 200 00:07:17,230 --> 00:07:19,119 They have posters up showing that. 201 00:07:20,710 --> 00:07:22,869 And so, again, sort of you've got 202 00:07:22,870 --> 00:07:24,849 all of these sort of new top-level 203 00:07:24,850 --> 00:07:25,899 domains that we don't have. 204 00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:27,819 So maybe we can ask the ATF to include 205 00:07:27,820 --> 00:07:28,820 these 206 00:07:30,790 --> 00:07:33,189 are, you know, dot web 207 00:07:33,190 --> 00:07:35,019 or dot recreational or something. 208 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,009 So I didn't get that much access to it. 209 00:07:39,010 --> 00:07:40,839 The students all knew it. 210 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,819 The college students at other 211 00:07:42,820 --> 00:07:44,199 universities would have access to the 212 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,329 Internet and would have 213 00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:47,679 more access than they did at our school 214 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,609 where they didn't get anything. 215 00:07:48,610 --> 00:07:50,169 And so they were sort of somewhat 216 00:07:51,220 --> 00:07:52,899 unhappy about that. I guess they would 217 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:54,069 prefer to be someplace where they had 218 00:07:54,070 --> 00:07:55,070 some connectivity. 219 00:07:57,380 --> 00:07:59,059 I guess the other question that comes to 220 00:07:59,060 --> 00:08:01,129 mind is, OK, so so then how do 221 00:08:01,130 --> 00:08:03,229 you if you if you 222 00:08:03,230 --> 00:08:04,279 don't have access to the Internet, get 223 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:05,389 new stuff? 224 00:08:05,390 --> 00:08:07,399 It sounds like there is some government 225 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,619 agency or of some form that 226 00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:11,689 sort of like a librarian service where 227 00:08:11,690 --> 00:08:13,429 university students who wanted to get 228 00:08:13,430 --> 00:08:15,499 access to papers that were not available 229 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:16,339 would request it. 230 00:08:16,340 --> 00:08:17,659 And someone at this agency would go to 231 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:19,759 the Internet, find it and send it 232 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:20,760 back to them. 233 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,819 So this is how you sort of get 234 00:08:22,820 --> 00:08:24,889 information in it, sort of on request. 235 00:08:26,780 --> 00:08:27,780 Cool. 236 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,459 So the students had computers, 237 00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:33,558 the laptops, some 238 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,939 of the some of my students had personal 239 00:08:34,940 --> 00:08:36,739 laptops that they would bring to class. 240 00:08:36,740 --> 00:08:38,029 They were running Windows XP. 241 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:40,609 We went to 242 00:08:41,690 --> 00:08:43,579 a mall that had an electronic market in 243 00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:45,320 it every couple of weeks for shopping, 244 00:08:46,430 --> 00:08:47,929 and they had a bunch of computers 245 00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:50,269 generally running windows. 246 00:08:50,270 --> 00:08:52,489 Generally, it seemed imported from China. 247 00:08:52,490 --> 00:08:54,319 A lot of Chinese brands were there. 248 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,909 That seemed to be sort of what was there. 249 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:58,489 It was cheap. It was available. 250 00:08:58,490 --> 00:09:00,499 I didn't really see anyone seriously 251 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:02,119 using Red Star anywhere. 252 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,729 This is the sort of mythical thing 253 00:09:04,730 --> 00:09:07,069 Red Star is made by KCC. 254 00:09:07,070 --> 00:09:08,509 The Korean Computing Center is one of the 255 00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:09,899 two sort of large labs. 256 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:11,449 The other one is the Pyongyang 257 00:09:11,450 --> 00:09:12,899 Information Center. 258 00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:13,900 Uh. 259 00:09:15,390 --> 00:09:17,459 It seems my my my gut feeling here and 260 00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:18,749 I don't have much to support that, is 261 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:20,039 that it gets used more for sort of 262 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,809 industrial automation contracting things 263 00:09:21,810 --> 00:09:24,029 where some other company will 264 00:09:24,030 --> 00:09:26,189 go to KCC and say, we want to automate 265 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:27,689 our factory and they'll get a controller. 266 00:09:27,690 --> 00:09:29,339 And that controller with custom software 267 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:31,499 may well be running red staff 268 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:33,389 because you get vendor lock in, which is 269 00:09:33,390 --> 00:09:34,349 great. 270 00:09:34,350 --> 00:09:35,939 And also just like that's maybe where 271 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:38,099 they're programing. But for for end user 272 00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:39,419 computers, it was basically all Windows 273 00:09:39,420 --> 00:09:41,399 XP, a little bit of Windows seven, but 274 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:42,659 not much. 275 00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:44,219 But they do have this thing. 276 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:45,690 The latest version looks very Mac like. 277 00:09:47,690 --> 00:09:48,690 Very Mac like. 278 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:54,419 One, one, one thing, I guess there's two 279 00:09:54,420 --> 00:09:55,409 things that are interesting here. 280 00:09:55,410 --> 00:09:57,779 One is that like it's 281 00:09:57,780 --> 00:09:59,369 localized so you can use this without 282 00:09:59,370 --> 00:10:01,379 speaking English. That's good. 283 00:10:01,380 --> 00:10:03,299 And it has a very prominent sort of like 284 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:04,799 input method thing in the top that you 285 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,449 can't really get rid of. 286 00:10:06,450 --> 00:10:08,249 You also don't get root on it. 287 00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:10,349 So it has a terminal, but by 288 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:12,659 default on the install, you can't 289 00:10:12,660 --> 00:10:14,280 sue or sue or do that. 290 00:10:16,650 --> 00:10:17,699 So I've got a demo. 291 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:18,700 I guess I can 292 00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:20,830 log in. 293 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,749 Uh, it's a little bit 294 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:25,750 slow. 295 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:41,249 So let's see, we'll start the terminal, 296 00:10:41,250 --> 00:10:43,709 the the other thing that's maybe 297 00:10:43,710 --> 00:10:45,509 interesting here, I guess there's a 298 00:10:45,510 --> 00:10:47,069 couple of things. So so we've got a set 299 00:10:47,070 --> 00:10:48,029 of applications. 300 00:10:48,030 --> 00:10:50,129 Some of these are pretty 301 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:52,229 clearly skinned and are Linux 302 00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:54,029 applications that you know and love. 303 00:10:54,030 --> 00:10:56,279 Others seem to be much more made by hand. 304 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,939 We can look at the route and it 305 00:10:59,940 --> 00:11:01,229 looks sort of Linux. 306 00:11:01,230 --> 00:11:02,999 See, it's got an applications folder, 307 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,339 though, which maybe is not as commonly 308 00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:06,340 found. 309 00:11:09,570 --> 00:11:10,570 So. 310 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,529 And in there, we see a bunch 311 00:11:17,530 --> 00:11:18,729 of scrap folders 312 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:22,989 and in there, you know, in quick time, 313 00:11:22,990 --> 00:11:25,449 for instance, it's got contents 314 00:11:25,450 --> 00:11:27,279 and then it has a red star folder for the 315 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,280 binary. 316 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,629 So someone someone really like 317 00:11:31,630 --> 00:11:33,819 got OS 318 00:11:33,820 --> 00:11:35,439 10 and got told, make something that 319 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,700 works like this and looks like this, 320 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:39,920 which is pretty cool. 321 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:44,559 So it's a one like, yeah, 322 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,059 we can we can look through. 323 00:11:46,060 --> 00:11:47,289 And one application that's sort of 324 00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:49,899 interesting is there's a utility 325 00:11:49,900 --> 00:11:52,299 that I hadn't seen before called Baucom. 326 00:11:56,660 --> 00:11:57,949 And says you can't run this unless your 327 00:11:57,950 --> 00:11:59,659 route, which is interesting since you 328 00:11:59,660 --> 00:12:01,879 can't be route, but luckily 329 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,009 since I'm in a VM, I can change 330 00:12:04,010 --> 00:12:05,719 the desk and make myself route. 331 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,639 So I've been able to go on this one. 332 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:08,690 And it turns out that 333 00:12:09,950 --> 00:12:12,109 Baucom actually should come 334 00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:13,110 out in a second. 335 00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:17,059 It allows me to make encrypted disks, 336 00:12:17,060 --> 00:12:19,159 which is pretty cool, so that that 337 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,799 got included, but sort of not 338 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:22,800 easily allowed. 339 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,690 So I can make my menu when you disk. 340 00:12:33,550 --> 00:12:34,550 That's thinking. 341 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,130 Well, that wasn't what I wanted to show. 342 00:12:47,890 --> 00:12:48,939 What I was going to show is that was 343 00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:50,889 using A-s, which was sort of nice. 344 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:51,890 Here we go. 345 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,360 Something's happening. 346 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:22,389 All right, so I'm 347 00:13:22,390 --> 00:13:23,390 going to, uh. 348 00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:26,229 Like show another one, so it's got it's 349 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:28,629 got Natera Web browser, which 350 00:13:28,630 --> 00:13:30,939 looks quite similar to it, 351 00:13:30,940 --> 00:13:33,039 cited something that, again, Nikolaos 352 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,629 basically Firefox, but with a different 353 00:13:34,630 --> 00:13:35,649 name. 354 00:13:35,650 --> 00:13:37,210 But again, it does have 355 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:39,589 special bookmarks. 356 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:40,799 Here we go. 357 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:41,800 That's Firefox. 358 00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:44,919 I don't want it to be my default browser 359 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:45,920 again. It. 360 00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:50,829 It's using a set of internal apps 361 00:13:50,830 --> 00:13:52,449 for it's like default homepage and things 362 00:13:52,450 --> 00:13:54,259 that certainly won't load. 363 00:13:54,260 --> 00:13:56,349 So some of these 364 00:13:56,350 --> 00:13:58,449 are sort of customized other ones. 365 00:13:58,450 --> 00:13:59,799 They've done a better job. 366 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:00,869 One. 367 00:14:00,870 --> 00:14:02,579 I'm not sure why the hard drive is being 368 00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:03,580 so there we go. 369 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:07,840 Let me make it. 370 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,069 Oh, yeah, so so I can look and I can 371 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:15,449 put a password and I can choose my 372 00:14:15,450 --> 00:14:17,669 algorithm and I can make my my 373 00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:19,979 my special encrypted disk image that 374 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:22,679 gets mounted. So it has this like 375 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:23,680 security, 376 00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:26,609 if you want if you want an encrypted 377 00:14:26,610 --> 00:14:27,610 disk. 378 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:31,959 If you want an encrypted disk that, you 379 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,409 know, the NSA hasn't done anything to 380 00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:34,410 you. 381 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,979 So is that last part is is mobile stuff, 382 00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:45,980 so. 383 00:14:47,260 --> 00:14:49,239 They've got a lot of android that seems 384 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,459 to be the there's a lot of older 385 00:14:51,460 --> 00:14:53,079 generation feature phones running some 386 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,029 sort of Java feature thing, and the new 387 00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:56,739 ones that they're working on are Android 388 00:14:56,740 --> 00:14:59,019 based. So this is the Arirang phone, 389 00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:01,149 which came out last year. 390 00:15:01,150 --> 00:15:02,649 They wanted something like six hundred 391 00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:04,119 dollars for it initially, which seems 392 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:05,409 like a lot. 393 00:15:05,410 --> 00:15:07,629 I'm not sure who was buying it, but but 394 00:15:07,630 --> 00:15:08,859 it is starting to get out. 395 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:09,860 It's running Android. 396 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:12,970 I bought a tablet. 397 00:15:14,770 --> 00:15:17,319 It's a tablet, it's 398 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,569 party pieces that it has analog TV, which 399 00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:20,570 is pretty cool. 400 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,389 What it doesn't have is Wi-Fi or 401 00:15:31,390 --> 00:15:33,100 Bluetooth or anything else. 402 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,049 So, you know, you can make things for 403 00:15:38,050 --> 00:15:39,549 your own market. I guess that's good. 404 00:15:40,930 --> 00:15:42,579 I was told that the nine inch version did 405 00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:43,580 have Wi-Fi, though. 406 00:15:45,610 --> 00:15:48,009 So in order to to 407 00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:50,049 sort of make this a little bit easier. 408 00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:53,049 I'm going to show 409 00:15:53,050 --> 00:15:54,489 videos of. 410 00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:57,799 This rather than do it on the actual 411 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,899 device, but just walk through sort of 412 00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:01,190 basic interaction with this thing 413 00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:04,429 and this is slightly ugly, but it 414 00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:05,629 should work. I think it gets 415 00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:07,650 less miserable. 416 00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:32,589 So it's got a cool background of like 417 00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:34,210 missiles and cyber warfare, 418 00:16:38,530 --> 00:16:40,269 it has it has the same sort of browser 419 00:16:40,270 --> 00:16:42,579 thing, which, again, 420 00:16:42,580 --> 00:16:44,439 has sort of like screenshots of a bunch 421 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,749 of the internal websites. 422 00:16:46,750 --> 00:16:47,829 So at least when they were developing 423 00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:49,450 this image, they were on Quami on. 424 00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:54,409 It's sort of, I think, ice 425 00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:56,629 cream sandwich level, so some apps 426 00:16:56,630 --> 00:16:57,859 they've spent a lot of time on, so this 427 00:16:57,860 --> 00:16:59,899 is one that is sort of the collected 428 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,610 writings of the various leaders. 429 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:05,179 And so they've got their bookshelf. 430 00:17:05,180 --> 00:17:06,229 And this is 431 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,349 Kim Jong Il. You can see the different. 432 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:18,618 So it gets better than that, right? 433 00:17:18,619 --> 00:17:19,818 So that was that was just the different 434 00:17:19,819 --> 00:17:21,739 volumes. And each of these volumes is 435 00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:23,749 many different speeches. 436 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:25,519 And you go into the speech and you get 437 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,019 the the multipage speech. 438 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:29,929 So so there's quite a lot of material. 439 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:32,059 And for each of these things, you 440 00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:34,159 can go in and get translations and get 441 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,229 definitions of all the words, 442 00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:37,230 which is pretty good. 443 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:40,429 And you can also it has 444 00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:41,719 voice feedback. 445 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,909 I don't think that I think is working 446 00:17:43,910 --> 00:17:45,979 on this one, but it will actually narrate 447 00:17:45,980 --> 00:17:46,939 this to you. 448 00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:49,069 So you've got 449 00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:50,070 that, which is cool. 450 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:54,019 Um, in addition to like. 451 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,669 This, which has its 452 00:17:57,670 --> 00:17:59,849 its place, I guess they had a bunch 453 00:17:59,850 --> 00:18:01,919 of apps that seem to be much more 454 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,679 just sort of customized 455 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,359 from from existing apps. 456 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,269 So there there are various games. 457 00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:10,270 There's Angry Birds. 458 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,859 So some Angry Birds does its thing. 459 00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:14,910 This, I think, is real. 460 00:18:16,650 --> 00:18:18,479 And it's got sort of a not quite the same 461 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,329 color logo at the top in Korean. 462 00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:23,039 So someone went in and needed to change 463 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,420 the sprites. And that's OK. 464 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,359 See what else I think? 465 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:31,439 I think I had a couple more that were 466 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,910 interesting and so in settings, 467 00:18:34,860 --> 00:18:36,509 you plug USB into this and it doesn't do 468 00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:37,510 anything. 469 00:18:38,430 --> 00:18:39,430 There's no debug mode. 470 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:43,079 You sort of have limited settings, but 471 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,080 you've got some. 472 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:48,379 And so what more do you do with this? 473 00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:50,489 It turns out that like to get apps, 474 00:18:50,490 --> 00:18:52,529 if you're if you're trying to get apps on 475 00:18:52,530 --> 00:18:54,629 the thing, you go to a store 476 00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:56,249 and they will put the new app. 477 00:18:56,250 --> 00:18:57,179 Here's the analog TV. 478 00:18:57,180 --> 00:18:58,180 You get three stations. 479 00:18:59,610 --> 00:19:01,319 And then when you're not there, they're 480 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,320 sort of fuzzy. 481 00:19:06,330 --> 00:19:08,489 So it luckily it does have a debug 482 00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:09,490 mode. 483 00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:14,689 And so if you start up and hold all the 484 00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:16,849 buttons down, it 485 00:19:16,850 --> 00:19:18,379 goes into Android recovery mode and it's 486 00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:20,269 only slightly broken, it doesn't have a 487 00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:22,369 shelf or anything to, like, 488 00:19:22,370 --> 00:19:24,079 actually use EDB with, but you can still 489 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,089 use push and pull to get files on and off 490 00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:27,889 of it. So there's a little debug menu 491 00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:28,890 that pops up. 492 00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:31,939 It has like it's got a little 493 00:19:31,940 --> 00:19:34,099 mini SD card that has eight 494 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:36,349 gigs on it and like six 495 00:19:36,350 --> 00:19:37,939 or seven different partitions because 496 00:19:37,940 --> 00:19:39,680 that's the way you do things. 497 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,869 And they're mounted at data which 498 00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:46,429 might sound right. And also slash data 499 00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:48,589 too. And the apex 500 00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:50,059 reference file statically at slash data 501 00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:52,039 too. So they won't really just transfer 502 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,960 over, which is unfortunate. 503 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,499 So so I looked at this a little bit. 504 00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:58,939 I was able to get some of the because in 505 00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:00,919 this like app, Angry Birds is still Angry 506 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,240 Birds just with different sprites in it. 507 00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:05,479 The the speeches, which 508 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:06,800 was the one I was sort of interested in, 509 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:09,739 isn't nearly as easy. 510 00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:11,329 I couldn't find the actual speech content 511 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:13,249 anywhere on the thing and looked at the 512 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:16,249 decks de compilation 513 00:20:16,250 --> 00:20:17,250 and 514 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:19,789 it turns out that like 515 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,909 it's loading and another encrypted 516 00:20:22,910 --> 00:20:25,319 partition to get to that speech data. 517 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:26,629 So they're really like actually trying to 518 00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:28,969 make it hard to to take that API and 519 00:20:28,970 --> 00:20:31,039 and put it somewhere more accessible like 520 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,139 that. That is that is part of this device 521 00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:34,140 and not meant to go anywhere. 522 00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:36,469 And that was about as far as I got on 523 00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:37,470 that. But 524 00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:40,519 if anyone wants to take a stab, I would 525 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,820 welcome additional help. 526 00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:45,109 So I think that's 527 00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:46,699 that's sort of the main things that I 528 00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:47,700 took away from it. 529 00:20:48,770 --> 00:20:50,329 They're really customizing stuff to work 530 00:20:50,330 --> 00:20:52,129 in their market, as you would expect. 531 00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:53,659 They've got phones. 532 00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:55,219 I think Carelink has over a million 533 00:20:55,220 --> 00:20:56,809 subscribers, something of that nature 534 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:58,069 which isn't that surprising because you 535 00:20:58,070 --> 00:21:00,229 see phones around Pyongyang quite a bit 536 00:21:00,230 --> 00:21:01,399 and Pyongyang, something like four 537 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,400 million people. 538 00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:06,470 So thank you. 539 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:19,849 Thank you very much. 540 00:21:19,850 --> 00:21:22,029 That was a really, really interesting 541 00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:22,959 topic. 542 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,219 You read very fast. 543 00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:26,379 So we have a lot of time for questions 544 00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:27,579 and answers. 545 00:21:27,580 --> 00:21:29,799 And please come up 546 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,569 to the microphones if you have any 547 00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:32,499 questions. 548 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:34,749 And to the other ones, please stay 549 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:36,909 seated during the Q&A as it 550 00:21:36,910 --> 00:21:38,949 gets to know if you absolutely have a 551 00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:41,139 pressing need to leave, then 552 00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:43,749 please do it quietly and do not 553 00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:44,979 disturb the atmosphere. 554 00:21:44,980 --> 00:21:47,559 So the first one on the microphone, 555 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:48,879 one, please. 556 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,880 Yeah, I have 557 00:21:51,490 --> 00:21:52,899 a couple of questions. 558 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:54,999 Firstly, there are only men on this. 559 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,129 What what you want 560 00:21:57,130 --> 00:21:58,539 to the microphone, please. 561 00:21:58,540 --> 00:21:59,540 So 562 00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:04,029 you have to put the microphone, take 563 00:22:04,030 --> 00:22:05,529 them away from the microphone. 564 00:22:05,530 --> 00:22:09,039 Yeah, OK, absolutely. 565 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,129 So there are only men on this picture. 566 00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:13,489 Why is that? 567 00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:15,939 Uh, when the school opened it 568 00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:17,919 was determined that the initial student 569 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:18,979 body would be male. 570 00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:21,519 Uh, the foreign faculty 571 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,219 are pushing to get, uh, females 572 00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:26,289 the, uh, responses that there may be 573 00:22:26,290 --> 00:22:27,819 a nursing program opening that will have 574 00:22:27,820 --> 00:22:30,159 females, which isn't quite the same. 575 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,160 But we're getting there. 576 00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:35,379 There are like the 577 00:22:35,380 --> 00:22:37,779 other DPRK computer science professors, 578 00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:40,149 there are female ones. So it's not a 579 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:41,920 uniform, uh, 580 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:44,359 gender difference. 581 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:46,569 Uh, it sounded like 582 00:22:46,570 --> 00:22:48,549 it was something like the students are 583 00:22:48,550 --> 00:22:50,889 supposed to sort of not really talk 584 00:22:50,890 --> 00:22:52,209 all that much about what they learn 585 00:22:52,210 --> 00:22:53,889 outside when they go home for the summer. 586 00:22:53,890 --> 00:22:55,989 And it was decided that, uh, 587 00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:57,130 guys were less chatty 588 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,339 and. 589 00:22:59,340 --> 00:22:59,709 Yeah. 590 00:22:59,710 --> 00:23:02,169 And what, uh, 591 00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:03,309 what language. 592 00:23:03,310 --> 00:23:04,929 And I was teaching in English, I don't 593 00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:06,339 know, Korean at all. Yeah. 594 00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:08,479 And with 595 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,609 translation and stuff. 596 00:23:09,610 --> 00:23:10,599 Yeah. Yeah. 597 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,849 OK, so the 598 00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:13,850 this university, 599 00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:17,139 as students come in they take one year of 600 00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:19,209 English English language as 601 00:23:19,210 --> 00:23:21,069 a foreign language. But most of them, I 602 00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:22,479 think pretty much all of them have had 603 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,639 English in high school before they 604 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:25,659 get to university level. 605 00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:26,679 So that's already somewhat good. 606 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,619 And then a year of just intense English 607 00:23:29,620 --> 00:23:31,359 gets them up to the level where they they 608 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:32,739 do quite well in their major classes 609 00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:33,740 being taught in English. 610 00:23:35,390 --> 00:23:37,119 The next question from microphone to 611 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:38,619 please, and after that, we will have a 612 00:23:38,620 --> 00:23:40,779 question from the Internet. 613 00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:43,029 So one question, is there 614 00:23:43,030 --> 00:23:45,099 some kind of system dump of the 615 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:47,289 operating system of the Android phone 616 00:23:47,290 --> 00:23:48,640 or Android tablet? 617 00:23:49,870 --> 00:23:51,579 So so I got some of the partitions. 618 00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:53,409 But other ones don't like copy directly 619 00:23:53,410 --> 00:23:54,849 with Adobe, so I don't have the full 620 00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:56,109 thing. And it seemed weird to just have, 621 00:23:56,110 --> 00:23:58,209 like, partial partitions, which is why 622 00:23:58,210 --> 00:23:59,210 I haven't done that. 623 00:24:00,250 --> 00:24:02,169 OK, now the question from our second 624 00:24:02,170 --> 00:24:03,459 vendor, please. 625 00:24:03,460 --> 00:24:06,039 OK, the first question from the 626 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,509 site, the first question from the 627 00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:09,639 Internet is how do you 628 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,859 actually keep up with the C 629 00:24:11,860 --> 00:24:13,929 not control with all the North Korean 630 00:24:13,930 --> 00:24:14,930 tech? 631 00:24:15,370 --> 00:24:17,469 I was there for two falls, 632 00:24:17,470 --> 00:24:18,759 so involved 2013. 633 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,859 I was there for three months teaching 634 00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:22,989 and I went back for a few weeks earlier 635 00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:24,549 this fall for another lecture. 636 00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:28,029 OK, then we will go round for 637 00:24:28,030 --> 00:24:29,869 the number three, please. 638 00:24:29,870 --> 00:24:31,929 Hi. Um, I was wondering if you have any 639 00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:34,179 insight on what they're using, 640 00:24:34,180 --> 00:24:35,949 which are what you're teaching them for. 641 00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:37,119 I mean, what are they programing. 642 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:38,129 What are they making. 643 00:24:38,130 --> 00:24:39,279 Any idea on that. 644 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,559 Right. So so my basic 645 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,119 sense because they kept asking about 646 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,339 Android was that they realized 647 00:24:45,340 --> 00:24:46,599 that they've got this whole tablet and 648 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,339 phone ecosystem that they need people to, 649 00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:50,529 like, develop and they sort 650 00:24:50,530 --> 00:24:51,849 of would like to have more people who can 651 00:24:51,850 --> 00:24:52,839 do that. 652 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,209 So it seemed like, uh, 653 00:24:55,210 --> 00:24:57,309 many of the students were, 654 00:24:57,310 --> 00:24:59,379 as after they graduated, likely to end up 655 00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:01,209 working on developing more of these apps 656 00:25:01,210 --> 00:25:02,649 and sort of advancing that. 657 00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:05,049 Uh, so the first the first undergraduates 658 00:25:05,050 --> 00:25:06,429 graduated this fall. 659 00:25:06,430 --> 00:25:08,589 And we know that some of them, uh, ended 660 00:25:08,590 --> 00:25:11,259 up going into sort of graduate programs 661 00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:13,659 for more education and other ones 662 00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:16,239 did end up working in this CCSC 663 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,309 labs doing computer 664 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:19,310 stuff. 665 00:25:20,020 --> 00:25:21,039 OK. 666 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,319 Microphone four, please. 667 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,399 Um, did you witness any non elite 668 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,699 students use technology 669 00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:29,259 outside, maybe the university. 670 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,109 So so, um. 671 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,279 You would see phones around Pyongyang so 672 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,449 so beyond just the students, like the the 673 00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:41,719 the life that I saw was Pyongyang. 674 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,809 We did not leave the city very much, 675 00:25:43,810 --> 00:25:45,529 but although we did leave campus to some 676 00:25:45,530 --> 00:25:46,579 extent. 677 00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:47,899 And so you would see people who were sort 678 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:49,609 of normal Pyongyang residents, and they 679 00:25:49,610 --> 00:25:51,559 would not be uncommon for them to have 680 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:52,560 phones as well. 681 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,379 And, you know, these these students, not 682 00:25:57,380 --> 00:25:58,409 all of them were from Pyongyang. 683 00:25:58,410 --> 00:26:00,319 Some of them were sort of upper class, 684 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,509 but were from other provinces and came in 685 00:26:02,510 --> 00:26:03,709 for schooling. 686 00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:05,959 So it's not completely limited 687 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,029 to the city, but I don't 688 00:26:08,030 --> 00:26:09,769 have a sense of exactly how that 689 00:26:09,770 --> 00:26:11,839 distribution of sort of the gradient 690 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,149 of who has access files, any notebooks 691 00:26:14,150 --> 00:26:16,429 in the city somewhere, what any 692 00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:18,649 notebooks witnessed in the city's 693 00:26:18,650 --> 00:26:19,909 notebooks. 694 00:26:19,910 --> 00:26:20,910 Uh. 695 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:31,619 You'd see them in shops, some like you'd 696 00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:33,419 see the point of sale or that sort of 697 00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:35,189 thing. I didn't see that many like I 698 00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:36,509 don't know if I was in situations where I 699 00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:38,159 would see people using personal laptops. 700 00:26:39,270 --> 00:26:41,459 Like I didn't see in that much, though. 701 00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:42,629 Nothing that stands out to me. 702 00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:43,829 But I don't think I was expecting to 703 00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:44,830 either. 704 00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:47,399 OK, you to have a fair distribution of 705 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,889 questions of you have left, 706 00:26:49,890 --> 00:26:52,229 please, microphone one, then two, 707 00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:54,149 and then the question from the Internet 708 00:26:54,150 --> 00:26:55,769 and then we will see how much time we 709 00:26:55,770 --> 00:26:56,770 have left. 710 00:27:00,070 --> 00:27:01,359 Oh, sorry, sorry. 711 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,879 I know it's 712 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:04,869 very unfair. 713 00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:07,029 I didn't see you had to see from 714 00:27:07,030 --> 00:27:08,030 up here. OK, 715 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:11,169 then we keep the order of the microphone 716 00:27:11,170 --> 00:27:13,299 five, microphone six, and 717 00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:14,300 then we're gone. 718 00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:17,259 Did you bring any of your own devices to 719 00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:18,849 the country and where they checked in any 720 00:27:18,850 --> 00:27:21,339 way, or could you elaborate on this? 721 00:27:21,340 --> 00:27:23,829 So I brought a Chromebook, uh, 722 00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:26,049 because I liked having a 2pm. 723 00:27:26,050 --> 00:27:27,429 It was not checked. 724 00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:29,629 And it was you know, 725 00:27:29,630 --> 00:27:31,929 it seemed to stay fine the whole time. 726 00:27:31,930 --> 00:27:33,939 Uh, when I came back this time, I brought 727 00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:36,129 like a duffel bag 728 00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:37,749 full of a bunch of raspberry PIs that we 729 00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:39,069 used for programing exercises. 730 00:27:39,070 --> 00:27:40,629 And that got sort of a skeptical look 731 00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:42,459 when I opened it up at the border. 732 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:44,109 But they didn't seem to have problems 733 00:27:44,110 --> 00:27:46,359 with a bunch of their circuit boards 734 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:47,439 and camera modules. 735 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,440 So 736 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,669 they might take that for what you want. 737 00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:53,859 Yeah. Microphone six, please. 738 00:27:53,860 --> 00:27:55,779 Thanks for the talk. 739 00:27:55,780 --> 00:27:58,239 Could you please upload the image 740 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,519 of Red Star Office to 741 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,339 the Internet for research purposes? 742 00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:04,340 Yeah. So OK. 743 00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:14,490 So so I actually went 744 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,909 after asking one of the minders, so 745 00:28:17,910 --> 00:28:20,039 so I guess I hadn't explained that we 746 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,539 we could walk around campus freely, but 747 00:28:21,540 --> 00:28:24,059 to leave campus, we had to go with 748 00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:25,209 a guide. 749 00:28:25,210 --> 00:28:26,579 And so there was a set of guides for the 750 00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:28,259 campus, for the foreigners. 751 00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:29,309 And so at one point I was able to 752 00:28:29,310 --> 00:28:31,529 convince them to take me to a computer 753 00:28:31,530 --> 00:28:33,089 store because the normal one we went to 754 00:28:33,090 --> 00:28:35,009 did not sell Red Star. 755 00:28:35,010 --> 00:28:37,049 So we went to I believe that was a 756 00:28:37,050 --> 00:28:37,979 reseller of KCC. 757 00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:40,049 And for two thousand 758 00:28:40,050 --> 00:28:41,699 one or twenty five cents, I was able to 759 00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:42,780 get a copy, which is great. 760 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,379 However, I didn't want to like, 761 00:28:46,380 --> 00:28:48,119 distribute it because it was like, well, 762 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,169 I'm the only one who's like said that 763 00:28:49,170 --> 00:28:51,059 I've had it. But the good news is I got 764 00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:53,249 contacted earlier this fall by someone 765 00:28:53,250 --> 00:28:54,419 who claims that they want to put it 766 00:28:54,420 --> 00:28:56,459 online. So I would not be surprised if it 767 00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:57,749 actually ends up online pretty soon. 768 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,179 OK, we have still two minutes left. 769 00:29:01,180 --> 00:29:03,329 So some short question from microphone 770 00:29:03,330 --> 00:29:06,029 one microphone through and 771 00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:08,179 we will get to the Internet. 772 00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:10,590 Yeah, you have a question about the 773 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,109 kind of level of network 774 00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:18,389 knowledge, because I've seen 775 00:29:18,390 --> 00:29:20,669 a class A, B and C networks, which is not 776 00:29:20,670 --> 00:29:22,859 available anymore since twenty years. 777 00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:24,899 And the first question is, is glassless 778 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:27,329 into the main routing known there 779 00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:29,359 and is IPV six available there? 780 00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:37,949 I did not see any evidence of IPV six. 781 00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:39,179 I don't think there are there up on that 782 00:29:39,180 --> 00:29:40,180 one yet. 783 00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:42,659 The books that they had had BGP, they 784 00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:44,219 would ask me questions about BGP every 785 00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:45,749 once in a while. 786 00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:47,399 I don't think it was a huge problem. 787 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,799 They sort of just did things. 788 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,269 So the campus network. 789 00:29:51,270 --> 00:29:53,609 Right. I mentioned that it 790 00:29:53,610 --> 00:29:55,769 had a proxy when 791 00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:57,719 you connected your device, it didn't have 792 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,119 the or any sort of default route. 793 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,309 You had to explicitly type in the IP 794 00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:03,959 address of this gateway that you wanted 795 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,489 to use as your proxy and sort of normal 796 00:30:05,490 --> 00:30:07,019 traffic you sent out would just fall on 797 00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:08,020 the floor. 798 00:30:09,150 --> 00:30:11,099 And they chose that that internal network 799 00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:13,589 was going to be like the one 10 800 00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:15,749 slash eight address space 801 00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:17,249 because they could and I think it 802 00:30:17,250 --> 00:30:19,319 overlapped with a set of South Korean IP 803 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,320 space. So 804 00:30:21,780 --> 00:30:23,249 that was cool. 805 00:30:23,250 --> 00:30:25,229 So so they sort of use the segments of IP 806 00:30:25,230 --> 00:30:26,879 before that they want to. 807 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,670 So just a short question, please. 808 00:30:29,820 --> 00:30:31,979 I know you wanted to talk about 809 00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:33,959 technology. Not so much politics, but 810 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,159 could you maybe tell us a little bit 811 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,229 about the attitude of your 812 00:30:37,230 --> 00:30:39,389 students? Is there a hacker culture and 813 00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:41,519 spirit similar to what we have 814 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,009 to devalue digital freedoms, individual 815 00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:46,289 empowerment, like like we do? 816 00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:48,000 What's the motivation of the students? 817 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:50,849 I think the motivation for the students 818 00:30:50,850 --> 00:30:51,850 was pretty varied. 819 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:54,599 There were some of these guys 820 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,369 really did enjoy computer science and 821 00:30:56,370 --> 00:30:57,539 computers and hacking on them. 822 00:30:57,540 --> 00:30:59,609 And like in their free time and 823 00:30:59,610 --> 00:31:00,809 the evenings, they would go up to the lab 824 00:31:00,810 --> 00:31:02,430 and play computer games or 825 00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:05,489 work on coding. 826 00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:06,839 And so there was there was some evidence, 827 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,149 a lot of them sort of seemed 828 00:31:09,150 --> 00:31:12,119 either to end up at the school because 829 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,799 it was pretty clear that English as a 830 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,149 language is a pretty good skill to have, 831 00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:16,529 even if you don't care so much about your 832 00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:18,189 major somewhere in that boat. 833 00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:19,190 Um. 834 00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:21,789 So I guess one one anecdote to that is 835 00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:24,519 that there was this sort of copy of 836 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,589 a DOS level operating system that some 837 00:31:26,590 --> 00:31:28,779 previous student, I think I got 838 00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:30,459 told Kim Il-Sung University had had 839 00:31:30,460 --> 00:31:32,079 written that you could boot up directly 840 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,239 to that, had a competitive two 841 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,619 player Tetris that they really like to 842 00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:36,620 play. 843 00:31:37,060 --> 00:31:39,369 And it was like nice 256 color 844 00:31:39,370 --> 00:31:41,729 like and they were really good at it. 845 00:31:41,730 --> 00:31:43,839 So there are people who are doing cool 846 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,939 things over there, but I think it's 847 00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:48,069 not nearly at the same level as it is 848 00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:49,070 here. 849 00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:51,099 OK, detainments nearly up. 850 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:53,169 I think video takes a question from 851 00:31:53,170 --> 00:31:55,299 the Internet. And then one very short 852 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:56,889 question from microphone six. 853 00:31:56,890 --> 00:31:59,199 I know it's unfair to everybody standing 854 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,599 in line for the microphones, but, 855 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,879 you know, if you have only so much time, 856 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,979 please, to them, OK? 857 00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:08,169 And the Internet wants to know 858 00:32:08,170 --> 00:32:10,359 which name the dot com top level domain 859 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,410 is introduced there. 860 00:32:12,730 --> 00:32:14,349 Which top-level domain do they use yet? 861 00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:16,449 No, because 862 00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:18,369 they want to know if, like, dot com was 863 00:32:18,370 --> 00:32:20,619 we label like what did they 864 00:32:20,620 --> 00:32:22,059 imperialists forbidden namespace or 865 00:32:22,060 --> 00:32:23,239 something. 866 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,569 Uh, I mean so there's quote on 867 00:32:25,570 --> 00:32:27,969 the Internet and that was just their 868 00:32:27,970 --> 00:32:30,129 completely their own, uh, 869 00:32:30,130 --> 00:32:31,209 set of DNS. 870 00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:32,829 And when you were on the Internet you 871 00:32:32,830 --> 00:32:34,089 were using public DNS. 872 00:32:34,090 --> 00:32:36,579 So I don't I don't know of any particular 873 00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:37,580 mappings. 874 00:32:38,380 --> 00:32:41,169 OK, so the last question, please. 875 00:32:41,170 --> 00:32:42,129 Yes. 876 00:32:42,130 --> 00:32:44,889 Since they're using so old software 877 00:32:44,890 --> 00:32:46,989 and don't have access to updates 878 00:32:46,990 --> 00:32:48,849 on the Internet, how do they handle 879 00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:50,979 viruses or hacker and so on, or 880 00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:53,019 is this not happening? 881 00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:54,879 They keep reinstalling their operating 882 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,019 systems regularly, 883 00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:59,870 so. 884 00:33:02,620 --> 00:33:04,749 Thanks to everyone sorry that we are not 885 00:33:04,750 --> 00:33:06,969 able to have all the questions 886 00:33:06,970 --> 00:33:09,159 asked, but I think you can meet 887 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,409 Scott afterwards, so give a big round 888 00:33:11,410 --> 00:33:12,430 of applause to all.