0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/404 Thanks! 1 00:00:10,180 --> 00:00:12,279 Good morning, dear fellow conscious 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,679 beings, and 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,139 good day to you, fellow human beings 4 00:00:17,140 --> 00:00:18,790 in front of the displays at home. 5 00:00:22,830 --> 00:00:25,379 I would like to talk about four basic 6 00:00:25,380 --> 00:00:27,599 questions, actually, 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,639 probably I'm not able to answer them 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,019 completely today because they're 9 00:00:32,020 --> 00:00:34,499 sort of the first questions that we have 10 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:35,519 might not be quite true. 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,219 I think the first questions that we had 12 00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:40,289 as humanity was where is the 13 00:00:40,290 --> 00:00:42,569 food? And then how 14 00:00:42,570 --> 00:00:44,549 can we push back and to be far enough to 15 00:00:44,550 --> 00:00:46,819 get warm and to get the dirt of us. 16 00:00:47,850 --> 00:00:50,099 And then once that was solved, where 17 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:51,119 can we find love? 18 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,129 Because love is important. 19 00:00:53,130 --> 00:00:55,529 And when this was solved, these questions 20 00:00:55,530 --> 00:00:56,530 remained. 21 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,359 That is what's the nature of reality? 22 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,399 What does the universe look like? 23 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,799 What's the state of affairs out there? 24 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,569 And then what can we know about it? 25 00:01:06,570 --> 00:01:08,279 What's accessible to us? 26 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,720 Who are we, what our minds 27 00:01:11,310 --> 00:01:12,310 and what should we do? 28 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:17,329 Philosophy hasn't found final answers to 29 00:01:17,330 --> 00:01:19,059 these four questions, but it has asked 30 00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:21,379 them very nicely, and I think that if 31 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:23,899 you want to turn to answers, we should 32 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:25,999 look into individual scientists. 33 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,369 And I looked into computer science 34 00:01:28,370 --> 00:01:30,829 mostly for the last 23 35 00:01:30,830 --> 00:01:31,830 years or so. 36 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:35,269 And I would like to focus on a particular 37 00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:37,069 small subquestion, and that is the 38 00:01:37,070 --> 00:01:39,139 question of how it is 39 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:42,049 possible that the mind experiences 40 00:01:42,050 --> 00:01:43,700 a universe and make sense of it. 41 00:01:46,220 --> 00:01:48,919 How is it possible that signals enter 42 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,289 our mind somehow and are 43 00:01:51,290 --> 00:01:53,629 assessed by arrays of finely 44 00:01:53,630 --> 00:01:55,759 tuned classifiers that 45 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,759 react to them and then create 46 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,829 dynamic representations of objects and 47 00:02:00,830 --> 00:02:02,989 things and give rise to desires 48 00:02:02,990 --> 00:02:05,029 and needs and wishes? 49 00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:06,439 And then this whole thing triggers 50 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,989 associations in our memory, in our mind, 51 00:02:08,990 --> 00:02:11,149 and this all gets into great 52 00:02:11,150 --> 00:02:13,039 it, into a coherent experience of 53 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,109 awareness that spreads out and 54 00:02:15,110 --> 00:02:17,869 stabilizes throughout our mind. 55 00:02:17,870 --> 00:02:20,239 And then this gives rise to new memories 56 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,729 and imaginations and goals and plans 57 00:02:22,730 --> 00:02:24,919 and expectations, and then 58 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,799 it feeds back into the world somehow. 59 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:28,819 How is that possible? 60 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:31,809 I think this is basically the most 61 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:33,190 interesting question of all. 62 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:39,089 Reality is not given directly to us. 63 00:02:39,090 --> 00:02:41,699 The only thing that we get from it is 64 00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:43,859 appearances or 65 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:46,139 as said, more than 100 years 66 00:02:46,140 --> 00:02:48,209 ago. You get phenomena 67 00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:50,339 and somehow our mind is able to turn 68 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:52,469 these phenomena into ideas and concepts 69 00:02:52,470 --> 00:02:55,079 that also called Nguema and the process 70 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:56,939 by which it does. It is what you call it, 71 00:02:56,940 --> 00:02:57,940 Noisette. 72 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:00,809 We cannot really say much about 73 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:03,479 the state of affairs out there beyond the 74 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,879 fact that it's able to yield phenomena 75 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,169 appearances. 76 00:03:07,170 --> 00:03:08,639 And because we cannot say anything 77 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,919 definite about their how the structure 78 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:12,719 of the universe really looks like was 79 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,129 said. You shouldn't say anything about 80 00:03:14,130 --> 00:03:15,569 this. We should just shut up about it. 81 00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:16,919 And he calls this if hookey. 82 00:03:19,430 --> 00:03:21,469 So far, so good. But then his pupils came 83 00:03:21,470 --> 00:03:23,779 along and then they try to apply 84 00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:25,849 this idea of Noyce's upon 85 00:03:25,850 --> 00:03:27,829 Wasis itself and they realized if you try 86 00:03:27,830 --> 00:03:30,499 to explain wasis or we end up this 87 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:32,689 is Nyumah again, it's 88 00:03:32,690 --> 00:03:34,729 all the explanations that we possibly get 89 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:37,129 about the state of affairs, our part 90 00:03:37,130 --> 00:03:38,449 of our new ethics, fear. 91 00:03:38,450 --> 00:03:40,189 They're just ideas and concepts. 92 00:03:40,190 --> 00:03:42,319 So to formulate them, we 93 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,389 already need to presuppose Noyce's 94 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:46,699 science cannot reduce noise itself, 95 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:48,979 Maxilla said, and therefore it must 96 00:03:48,980 --> 00:03:51,139 presuppose the existence of the subject 97 00:03:51,140 --> 00:03:52,140 in the first place. 98 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,389 This has given rise to Continental 99 00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:58,549 philosophy and eventually to 100 00:03:58,550 --> 00:04:00,469 this division of most of philosophy in 101 00:04:00,470 --> 00:04:02,239 the sciences that we experience 102 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,989 throughout most of the last century, 103 00:04:03,990 --> 00:04:06,349 which I think is very unfortunate. 104 00:04:06,350 --> 00:04:08,569 But there might be a way out of this. 105 00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:11,539 If you look upon 106 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,689 the idea of how a robot perceives the 107 00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:17,328 world, it has an interface 108 00:04:17,329 --> 00:04:19,129 to the environment and this interface 109 00:04:19,130 --> 00:04:20,989 phase might be a bunch of sensors and 110 00:04:20,990 --> 00:04:23,779 sensors yield a vector of bets 111 00:04:23,780 --> 00:04:26,149 that is discernible differences, 112 00:04:26,150 --> 00:04:28,369 patterns. That is the same boundary that 113 00:04:28,370 --> 00:04:30,229 might be used to reduce uncertainty. 114 00:04:30,230 --> 00:04:32,779 And these bits are encoded 115 00:04:32,780 --> 00:04:34,339 into some low level encodings. 116 00:04:34,340 --> 00:04:36,229 And then you might have a cognitive 117 00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:38,299 architecture implemented in the robot 118 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:40,999 processing that turns this into 119 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,039 a conceptual representations that allow 120 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,289 the robot to reason about the world and 121 00:04:45,290 --> 00:04:47,509 to tell itself a story about what 122 00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:49,429 the world looks like and what itself 123 00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:51,289 looks like in that world. 124 00:04:51,290 --> 00:04:52,639 But of course, to a robot, there are no 125 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,739 phenomena. It's nothing what it feels 126 00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:55,999 like to be in this world, what the 127 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,099 appearances are and so on to the robot. 128 00:04:58,100 --> 00:05:00,109 There are only bits at the interface to 129 00:05:00,110 --> 00:05:01,110 the world. 130 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:04,769 But perhaps it's possible to build 131 00:05:04,770 --> 00:05:07,529 a cognitive architecture in a robot 132 00:05:07,530 --> 00:05:09,599 that is able to encode these bits 133 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,969 at a specific interface into something 134 00:05:11,970 --> 00:05:14,309 that looks like percepts 135 00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:16,379 to the robot, that looks like phenomena 136 00:05:16,380 --> 00:05:18,479 to the robot, and that gives rise 137 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,729 to concepts in a very similar way 138 00:05:20,730 --> 00:05:23,249 as noises that and humans object. 139 00:05:23,250 --> 00:05:25,019 The phenomena in this way might result 140 00:05:25,020 --> 00:05:26,579 from the robot's information processing 141 00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:27,580 architecture. 142 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:30,329 And if you buy into this paradigm, of 143 00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:32,609 course, we might ask ourselves if humans 144 00:05:32,610 --> 00:05:33,610 are robots to. 145 00:05:35,130 --> 00:05:36,899 And this idea that humans are actually 146 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:39,029 information processing machines is 147 00:05:39,030 --> 00:05:40,919 what underlies most of the cognitive 148 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,019 sciences, whether they're aware of 149 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:44,020 this or not. 150 00:05:48,550 --> 00:05:50,649 How do we perceive reality? 151 00:05:50,650 --> 00:05:51,759 You probably know this well-known 152 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,549 picture. I think I turned it upside down. 153 00:05:54,550 --> 00:05:55,550 OK. 154 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,149 There's something odd with this picture 155 00:05:58,150 --> 00:05:59,649 going on. Yeah, this is the normal 156 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:01,689 version. The thing that was odd about it 157 00:06:01,690 --> 00:06:03,309 in the first place was that the eyes and 158 00:06:03,310 --> 00:06:04,659 the mouth have been turned around and 159 00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:07,209 maybe some of you didn't notice at first. 160 00:06:07,210 --> 00:06:08,709 Why is that the case? 161 00:06:08,710 --> 00:06:09,819 And I think that's because we don't 162 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:12,159 process and take in faces 163 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,169 as a whole, but rather the process 164 00:06:14,170 --> 00:06:16,509 features in the face independently 165 00:06:16,510 --> 00:06:18,489 and then we combine them into a face 166 00:06:18,490 --> 00:06:20,199 schema that we mentally scan. 167 00:06:21,660 --> 00:06:23,249 If you look about visual information 168 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:25,409 processing, first of all, we have 169 00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:27,329 a retina and this retinal gives us a 170 00:06:27,330 --> 00:06:29,669 vector of bits, that is 171 00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:31,469 information patterns that are systemic 172 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:33,389 boundary that reduce uncertainty that we 173 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:35,549 can encode to form 174 00:06:35,550 --> 00:06:36,740 concepts about the world. 175 00:06:38,620 --> 00:06:40,509 Data on the retina is not a very good 176 00:06:40,510 --> 00:06:42,699 semblance of what 177 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:44,079 what's out there in the world or 178 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,209 whatever. Is a very sharp spot 179 00:06:46,210 --> 00:06:47,589 in the middle that is hard enough to 180 00:06:47,590 --> 00:06:49,929 read. It's pretty small then there's 181 00:06:49,930 --> 00:06:52,049 a lot of mushiness around color vision. 182 00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:54,039 It's only there in the center there is a 183 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,469 blind spot in which the optic 184 00:06:56,470 --> 00:06:58,659 nerve connects to the retina and where we 185 00:06:58,660 --> 00:07:00,609 have no photoreceptors. 186 00:07:00,610 --> 00:07:01,929 But we don't see any of this. 187 00:07:01,930 --> 00:07:04,209 Of course, this data 188 00:07:04,210 --> 00:07:06,369 is first projected into what 189 00:07:06,370 --> 00:07:08,469 neuroscientists call the letter read to 190 00:07:08,470 --> 00:07:10,659 Nicolet Nucleus, which is a fancy 191 00:07:10,660 --> 00:07:12,549 that is letton way of saying that is 192 00:07:12,550 --> 00:07:14,679 somehow a sideways knee like 193 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,139 looking protrusion protruding 194 00:07:17,140 --> 00:07:19,659 core. It's in the center of the brain 195 00:07:19,660 --> 00:07:21,549 and it's part of the thalamus and the 196 00:07:21,550 --> 00:07:23,709 thalamus determines chamber and it's sits 197 00:07:23,710 --> 00:07:26,409 conveniently on top of the spinal cord 198 00:07:26,410 --> 00:07:28,699 and it relays a lot of sensory data 199 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:31,059 into the cortex. So you have 200 00:07:31,060 --> 00:07:32,859 a crude touch and temperature and pain 201 00:07:32,860 --> 00:07:34,839 and so on. This all gets transmitted by 202 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,309 the thalamus into the cortex. 203 00:07:36,310 --> 00:07:38,289 You can think of it like a switchboard. 204 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,879 And this switchboard put projects 205 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,339 information into the primary 206 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:47,410 visual area, the straight cortex. 207 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:51,339 And this thing, if you look at a cross 208 00:07:51,340 --> 00:07:53,079 section of it, is basically two 209 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,599 millimeters of highly packed 210 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,879 neurons on top of lots and lots 211 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:58,880 of wiring 212 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:01,839 in the brain, there is something like 213 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,269 180000 kilometers of wiring 214 00:08:04,270 --> 00:08:06,129 depending on your age and gender. 215 00:08:06,130 --> 00:08:07,130 This varies a bit. 216 00:08:08,110 --> 00:08:10,239 And on top of this wiring 217 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:11,319 and the cortex, you have these two 218 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,809 millimeters of neurons 219 00:08:13,810 --> 00:08:15,879 that are organized in columns 220 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,199 and in the visual cortex. 221 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,879 These columns have the highest density of 222 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,169 neurons, which is probably because 223 00:08:20,170 --> 00:08:21,970 graphics is so expensive to compute. 224 00:08:24,270 --> 00:08:26,789 And right now, most neuroscientists 225 00:08:26,790 --> 00:08:28,919 believe that the primary 226 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,899 organizational unit of these neurons is 227 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:32,369 the mini column, a mini column is 228 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:34,319 something like a circuit that is made up 229 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,779 of something like 200 to 400 neurons. 230 00:08:36,780 --> 00:08:38,819 Half of that and the rest of the cortex. 231 00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:43,509 So if you do the math, there are about 232 00:08:43,510 --> 00:08:45,939 160000 million neurons 233 00:08:45,940 --> 00:08:47,619 in the primary visual cortex. 234 00:08:47,620 --> 00:08:49,929 You get about something like 300000 235 00:08:49,930 --> 00:08:52,149 features that can be encoded and 236 00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:53,889 the primary visual cortex. 237 00:08:53,890 --> 00:08:56,319 And if you look into this, 238 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,479 we do measurements in the brain there. 239 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,549 You find that in the middle there 240 00:09:00,550 --> 00:09:02,559 is an expanded area because there are 241 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:04,899 more features detected in the middle 242 00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:06,309 and it gets compressed around the 243 00:09:06,310 --> 00:09:08,469 corners. There's even the blind spot 244 00:09:08,470 --> 00:09:09,489 somewhere in there. 245 00:09:09,490 --> 00:09:11,679 And the different ones in this spatial 246 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,179 alignment, they call called for 247 00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:15,519 orientation and for frequency 248 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:16,520 and for color. 249 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,979 The primary visual area, we everyone then 250 00:09:21,980 --> 00:09:24,379 projects into V2, which has a stable 251 00:09:24,380 --> 00:09:26,299 visual map, so all the movements of the 252 00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:28,579 retina are combined and something 253 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:30,709 like a coherent visual field is 254 00:09:30,710 --> 00:09:31,710 somewhat stable. 255 00:09:33,940 --> 00:09:35,729 Also has more complex patterns and 256 00:09:35,730 --> 00:09:38,489 textures, it also projects into three 257 00:09:38,490 --> 00:09:40,559 and indeed free and visual areas 258 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:42,719 where we have color and some motion 259 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,969 direction and into 260 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:47,369 V4, very simple geometric shapes 261 00:09:47,370 --> 00:09:49,049 before we have mostly looked at in 262 00:09:49,050 --> 00:09:50,129 non-human primates. 263 00:09:51,510 --> 00:09:52,949 People probably have an equivalent to 264 00:09:52,950 --> 00:09:53,950 that. 265 00:09:58,630 --> 00:10:00,789 It also these areas 266 00:10:00,790 --> 00:10:02,919 project into five, which 267 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,019 has object motion and eagle 268 00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:07,119 motion in vehicles, and you can see 269 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,399 that now this processing power split 270 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,169 up and we found that there are two 271 00:10:11,170 --> 00:10:13,299 primary directions of processing 272 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:15,009 in the brain that work in parallel. 273 00:10:15,010 --> 00:10:17,139 One is what path? 274 00:10:17,140 --> 00:10:18,339 It's down there in the brain. 275 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:19,809 And it tells you about the nature of 276 00:10:19,810 --> 00:10:21,849 objects and the verifies, which tells you 277 00:10:21,850 --> 00:10:23,949 where they are. And the purpose reaches 278 00:10:23,950 --> 00:10:25,509 into those areas of the brain that are 279 00:10:25,510 --> 00:10:27,669 then responsible for grasping 280 00:10:27,670 --> 00:10:29,679 and attending to objects and their 281 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:30,680 positions. 282 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,279 This area that encodes 283 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,349 for the what of objects is what we 284 00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:38,929 call the inferior temporal gyrus, 285 00:10:38,930 --> 00:10:41,059 which again is Latin for the 286 00:10:41,060 --> 00:10:43,279 lower side baseballs 287 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,379 and this lower side baseball 288 00:10:45,380 --> 00:10:47,629 object schemata and enables us to 289 00:10:47,630 --> 00:10:49,609 separate figures from ground and also has 290 00:10:49,610 --> 00:10:51,289 numerous Rosatti. That is the ability to 291 00:10:51,290 --> 00:10:53,149 discern numbers which without actually 292 00:10:53,150 --> 00:10:55,519 counting. So if we look at, 293 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,319 for instance, the side of a dice and vis 294 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,629 a vis a single look how many dots 295 00:10:59,630 --> 00:11:01,159 there are on this side of the dice, this 296 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,109 is normal, Rosatti, and it's done in the 297 00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:05,149 inferior temporal gyrus. 298 00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:07,339 And there's an area in the inferior 299 00:11:07,340 --> 00:11:09,109 temporal GI, which is called the fusiform 300 00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:11,019 drivers. The spindle, like rich in the 301 00:11:11,020 --> 00:11:13,219 spindle leg, which is responsible for 302 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:14,839 face recognition. 303 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,459 If that is not working in your brain or 304 00:11:16,460 --> 00:11:17,359 you don't have it, you have 305 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:18,319 prosopagnosia. 306 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,539 That is, you don't recognize human 307 00:11:20,540 --> 00:11:22,429 faces and emotions and so on very well. 308 00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:24,409 And you have difficulty to discern people 309 00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:26,690 by their faces surprisingly common. 310 00:11:31,290 --> 00:11:32,969 Then there is an area in the brain that 311 00:11:32,970 --> 00:11:35,219 is able to direct attention, and 312 00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:36,869 this is the dorsolateral prefrontal 313 00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:39,299 cortex. It's somewhere in the forebrain. 314 00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:41,429 And you can think of it as an area that 315 00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:43,139 helps a lot of pointers and the rest of 316 00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:45,359 the cortex. And using these pointers, 317 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,429 it can pump activation in there and 318 00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:49,499 create a coherent pattern of activation. 319 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:52,769 It directs our attention and 320 00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:53,789 scans the schemata. 321 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:55,199 For instance, if you have a face or a 322 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,849 presentation or this representation of 323 00:11:56,850 --> 00:11:58,919 the Mona Lisa, it can scan down 324 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,109 from the face level to the eye level 325 00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:02,759 and so on into the mouse level to certain 326 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,760 features there. 327 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:07,989 The great thing about a model like this 328 00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:09,969 is that we can actually turn it into a 329 00:12:09,970 --> 00:12:12,249 specification for a computer program 330 00:12:12,250 --> 00:12:14,379 and then we can implement this and test 331 00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:16,059 whether our theory about how the mind 332 00:12:16,060 --> 00:12:17,619 works, all these observations that we 333 00:12:17,620 --> 00:12:19,419 have taken from neuroscience and from 334 00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:21,189 hard engineering, like thinking if you 335 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:22,869 are in nature, how would you do this? 336 00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:24,279 If you can turn this into a coherent 337 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,589 model and then we can test this model and 338 00:12:26,590 --> 00:12:29,109 see that it actually is able to perform 339 00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:30,110 pretty good vision. 340 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,069 Of course, this is a simplification and a 341 00:12:33,070 --> 00:12:35,829 lot of the details are missing, but 342 00:12:35,830 --> 00:12:37,329 it can do most of the tricks that you 343 00:12:37,330 --> 00:12:39,429 want it to show. So I think that we are 344 00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:40,809 pretty much on the right path here. 345 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,879 So what types of representations do we 346 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,679 have, you have schematic representations, 347 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:49,719 this thing that distinguishes between 348 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,819 faces and bodies and 349 00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:52,820 eyes and so on, 350 00:12:53,930 --> 00:12:55,449 and then we have non-competition 351 00:12:55,450 --> 00:12:56,229 representations. 352 00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:58,209 Those that we cannot combine, we cannot 353 00:12:58,210 --> 00:12:59,829 reuse the features throughout the 354 00:12:59,830 --> 00:13:01,989 representation. This is more associative 355 00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:03,579 and vague and so on. 356 00:13:03,580 --> 00:13:05,649 And it's hard to turn this 357 00:13:05,650 --> 00:13:06,969 into language. 358 00:13:06,970 --> 00:13:08,559 We have these language representations 359 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,959 that enable us to organize our schemas 360 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,819 on a high level and to communicate them 361 00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:14,049 to others. 362 00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:15,279 And then we have a class of 363 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,109 representations that I would call 364 00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:19,659 generative, and these generators 365 00:13:19,660 --> 00:13:22,089 allow us to build simulations 366 00:13:22,090 --> 00:13:24,169 of the world dynamic simulations. 367 00:13:24,170 --> 00:13:25,929 So, for instance, if you think about 368 00:13:25,930 --> 00:13:28,089 music or sound, what we need is 369 00:13:28,090 --> 00:13:30,999 something like a synthesizer in our mind. 370 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,489 For instance, here an artist has made 371 00:13:33,490 --> 00:13:35,649 a representation of what 372 00:13:35,650 --> 00:13:37,809 the sound of a canary would look like if 373 00:13:37,810 --> 00:13:39,969 you take it from the visual into 374 00:13:39,970 --> 00:13:42,639 the visual domain, like synesthesia. 375 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,049 And I think this looks a lot like 376 00:13:44,050 --> 00:13:45,549 synesthesia if you ever had an 377 00:13:45,550 --> 00:13:47,529 synesthetic experience. 378 00:13:47,530 --> 00:13:49,809 So in a way, I think this is 379 00:13:49,810 --> 00:13:51,969 an equivalent of what the brain does to 380 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:53,109 model. Sounds like this. 381 00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:54,879 And imagine sounds like this. 382 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,279 Somewhere in the brain, a computational 383 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,109 structure must be built that looks a lot 384 00:13:59,110 --> 00:14:00,219 like this. 385 00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:01,429 And it's not a schema. 386 00:14:01,430 --> 00:14:03,879 It's not just a static 387 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,409 neural pattern, but rather it's a 388 00:14:05,410 --> 00:14:06,410 generator. 389 00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:16,109 The difference between a perceptual 390 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:18,059 representation and an idea is that the 391 00:14:18,060 --> 00:14:20,429 perceptual representation is tagged 392 00:14:20,430 --> 00:14:22,649 as being verified 393 00:14:22,650 --> 00:14:25,019 in somewhere in the sensory area, 394 00:14:25,020 --> 00:14:27,669 so it gets projected down as a hypothesis 395 00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:29,969 into the sensory areas of the brain 396 00:14:29,970 --> 00:14:31,859 and the nervous system and then can get a 397 00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:33,749 verification. And when it's labeled as 398 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:35,909 verified, our brain 399 00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:37,889 takes this as being real by the rest of 400 00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:38,890 us being in an idea. 401 00:14:41,260 --> 00:14:43,459 So if we try to generalize this, 402 00:14:43,460 --> 00:14:44,889 you have the dorsolateral prefrontal 403 00:14:44,890 --> 00:14:47,469 cortex that somehow exercice distributed 404 00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:49,659 hierarchical representations 405 00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:51,309 and these hierarchies of distributive 406 00:14:51,310 --> 00:14:53,319 representations are picked out by the 407 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:54,370 attentional selection. 408 00:14:55,390 --> 00:14:57,369 Usually most of the time there is a 409 00:14:57,370 --> 00:14:59,169 superposition of many alternative 410 00:14:59,170 --> 00:15:01,239 interpretations and it's 411 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:02,559 very hard to translate this into 412 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:03,549 language. 413 00:15:03,550 --> 00:15:05,379 But using the dorsolateral prefrontal 414 00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:07,569 cortex, if you can make this coalesce 415 00:15:07,570 --> 00:15:09,729 into a coherent representation, 416 00:15:09,730 --> 00:15:12,519 imagine you have superimposed images, 417 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,409 superimposed photography that have 418 00:15:14,410 --> 00:15:16,209 different layers projected onto the same 419 00:15:16,210 --> 00:15:17,799 image. You are still able to discern the 420 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,759 different layers. 421 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,199 And this is because we can direct our 422 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,819 attention onto a part of the 423 00:15:21,820 --> 00:15:23,949 representation and then make it 424 00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:25,929 coherent by suppressing those parts that 425 00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:27,939 are not compatible with it. 426 00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:30,189 And this intentional filtering 427 00:15:30,190 --> 00:15:32,139 is orchestrated apparently by the 428 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:33,580 dorsolateral frontal cortex. 429 00:15:36,250 --> 00:15:38,649 And this bottom up, top down perception 430 00:15:38,650 --> 00:15:40,839 extends down into the sensory 431 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,339 perceptual areas that if you get 432 00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:44,079 predictive attention and motor control, 433 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,359 that enables us to pick us stimuli 434 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,459 from the environment to verify our 435 00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:49,959 hypothesis, what's actually being the 436 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,299 case. And then as a result, we get back 437 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:54,369 filtered representations that form 438 00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:55,510 these intermediate stage. 439 00:15:57,770 --> 00:15:59,509 Not all of our representations have a 440 00:15:59,510 --> 00:16:01,279 sense of grounding, of course, our modern 441 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,439 model and ourselves model have some sense 442 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,599 of grounding in proprioception, 443 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,089 for instance, or in visual perception. 444 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:09,859 But our mental state, so we can freely 445 00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:11,719 manipulate ideas, does not. 446 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,459 And our memories, of course, don't have 447 00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:14,719 anymore. 448 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,879 You could also see memory, by the way, 449 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,189 as something like 450 00:16:19,190 --> 00:16:20,959 visual perception, whereas something like 451 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,259 a perceptual process. 452 00:16:22,260 --> 00:16:24,409 But you ask the memory what hypothesis 453 00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:25,999 are true and as a result you get big 454 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,429 object abstractions and episodic 455 00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:30,679 episodes that happened in the past and 456 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,239 procedural memory, which tells you how to 457 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,609 do things and templates, 458 00:16:34,610 --> 00:16:36,679 frames that allow us to 459 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,139 interpret the current situation. 460 00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:43,349 The sensory perception basically is an 461 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:44,489 interface to the universe. 462 00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:46,049 It's give the universe, gives us your 463 00:16:46,050 --> 00:16:48,449 bits and we use those bits, encode them 464 00:16:48,450 --> 00:16:49,979 into the mental state, into the word 465 00:16:49,980 --> 00:16:51,240 model s model and so on. 466 00:16:52,330 --> 00:16:54,119 And the level of attention, awareness, 467 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,679 we're able to perform symbolic 468 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,839 operations. That is, you can do 469 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,819 conceptual thinking based on these 470 00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:01,679 representations by manipulating them 471 00:17:03,420 --> 00:17:05,429 in dreams. Something interesting happens 472 00:17:05,430 --> 00:17:07,679 because we don't have access to 473 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,539 our sensory organs anymore. 474 00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:11,639 And what would normally be the output 475 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,739 of those lower level sensory areas gets 476 00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:16,348 replaced by pretty much random noise. 477 00:17:16,349 --> 00:17:18,659 And this random noise then is encoded 478 00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:20,639 in the same way as the sensory data was 479 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,779 encoded before. 480 00:17:21,780 --> 00:17:23,489 So we get something that looks like a 481 00:17:23,490 --> 00:17:24,809 model and a self model, but it looks 482 00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:25,810 pretty weird. 483 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,299 Thankfully, our long term memory 484 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:30,099 formation is turned off during that time, 485 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,419 too, so usually we don't remember this, 486 00:17:32,420 --> 00:17:35,319 it actually might be useful process. 487 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,729 Maybe some things are getting 488 00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:38,469 strengthened. You find US associations 489 00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:40,509 and so on, and some housekeeping is being 490 00:17:40,510 --> 00:17:42,549 done on the mental representations. 491 00:17:42,550 --> 00:17:43,839 So the purpose of dreams is not 492 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,579 completely explored and fully known. 493 00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:47,469 But I think the nature of dreams is 494 00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:49,809 caused by the fact that the lowest level 495 00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:51,220 is replaced by random noise. 496 00:17:54,350 --> 00:17:56,499 If we do meditation, you can 497 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:58,569 completely tune out this interface to the 498 00:17:58,570 --> 00:18:00,489 universe if we want to, we also can turn 499 00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:03,039 out the framing of mental representations 500 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,019 in terms of the templates that we have 501 00:18:05,020 --> 00:18:06,039 acquired in the past. 502 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,199 So we get more awareness of 503 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,729 what's actually the case. 504 00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:11,259 And if you go very, very deep into 505 00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:13,839 meditation, you can even turn off 506 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:14,840 the model of self. 507 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,639 How is it possible that you can be 508 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,140 conscious without yourself? 509 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,229 I think that's because our self is 510 00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:25,209 not identical to our mind. 511 00:18:25,210 --> 00:18:26,979 Our self is also not an agent. 512 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:29,079 Ourself is a representation. 513 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,179 It's a story that the mind tells 514 00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:33,339 itself about what happens with 515 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:34,749 it in the world. 516 00:18:34,750 --> 00:18:36,819 And we need this story to do high 517 00:18:36,820 --> 00:18:39,159 level learning on what 518 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,359 we do in the world, because, for 519 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,039 instance, if you play ping pong, the need 520 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,139 to react very, very quickly in the 521 00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:46,389 course of a few, ten or 522 00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:47,349 a hundred milliseconds. 523 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:49,059 And this doesn't leave enough time for 524 00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:50,679 cortical processing. 525 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,109 But there's reflex arc is unable to 526 00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:55,359 determine whether we've just won a match 527 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:57,129 to decide whether we want to match of 528 00:18:57,130 --> 00:18:59,199 ping pong and use this as reinforcement 529 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,849 learning to improve our moves. 530 00:19:00,850 --> 00:19:02,409 We need to have this high level of story 531 00:19:02,410 --> 00:19:03,939 and this high level story is what we 532 00:19:03,940 --> 00:19:06,359 perceive as the self. 533 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,519 Likewise, Will is not what drives our 534 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,649 decision making, but whether the will is 535 00:19:10,650 --> 00:19:12,629 a representation on the level of the 536 00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:14,639 South, it's a representation of the fact 537 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,739 that somewhere in the mind, a motive 538 00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:18,809 has been raised to an intention that 539 00:19:18,810 --> 00:19:20,579 we have committed to do something. 540 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:22,109 And free will is actually a social 541 00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:24,209 notion. It means that this decision 542 00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:26,459 could have been influenced by discourse, 543 00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:28,529 by cognitive thought, by conscious 544 00:19:28,530 --> 00:19:30,989 thought and by talking to other people. 545 00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:33,539 So freewill is actually a social notion. 546 00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:35,729 It's determines whether we can 547 00:19:35,730 --> 00:19:37,289 be made socially responsible, 548 00:19:37,290 --> 00:19:39,329 discursively responsible for our actions. 549 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:44,449 So what's consciousness then, is it a 550 00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:46,729 behavior it's tempting to say, because, 551 00:19:46,730 --> 00:19:48,229 for instance, if you have this test, it's 552 00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:49,159 quite famous. 553 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,449 If consciousness, for instance, the 554 00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:52,039 ability to recognize yourself in the 555 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,109 mirror. This is observable behavior. 556 00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:56,449 Psychologists love observable behavior. 557 00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:58,609 So they took a lot of animals 558 00:19:58,610 --> 00:20:00,649 and humans and put masks on their faces 559 00:20:00,650 --> 00:20:01,939 and put them in front of a mirror. 560 00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:03,859 And then they test whether they able to 561 00:20:03,860 --> 00:20:05,389 recognize themselves in the mirror and 562 00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:06,979 thereby prove that they have a concept of 563 00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:08,299 self and consciousness. 564 00:20:10,010 --> 00:20:11,539 Difficulty there is that it's actually 565 00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:13,249 not a test of consciousness, but it's a 566 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:15,259 test of your ability to recognize that 567 00:20:15,260 --> 00:20:17,419 the mirror shows your body surface test 568 00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:19,729 that I might feel on a bad day 569 00:20:19,730 --> 00:20:20,730 and. 570 00:20:22,460 --> 00:20:24,559 Then we laid between that mirror image 571 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,959 and your body and then 572 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,479 be able to care about this 573 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,579 for a long time, people 574 00:20:31,580 --> 00:20:33,919 thought that elephants don't 575 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,049 have a concept of self because they don't 576 00:20:36,050 --> 00:20:38,329 remove the marks on their faces before 577 00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:40,099 people realize that elephants usually 578 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:41,869 don't care about marks on their faces. 579 00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:46,429 That is about two out of three elements. 580 00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:47,450 Elephants don't care. 581 00:20:49,490 --> 00:20:51,199 Also, dogs failed this test and maybe 582 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,939 dogs failed this test because they 583 00:20:52,940 --> 00:20:55,339 recognized each other, mostly by smell 584 00:20:55,340 --> 00:20:56,479 and by hearing it. 585 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,309 Not so much variation. 586 00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:59,899 So this is not a really good test for 587 00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:00,889 consciousness. 588 00:21:00,890 --> 00:21:03,169 And because it's neither necessary 589 00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:05,329 nor sufficient for consciousness to be 590 00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:07,639 able to recognize yourself in the mirror, 591 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,139 maybe it's something else entirely. 592 00:21:09,140 --> 00:21:11,509 Maybe it's the awareness of what happens 593 00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:12,510 in our mind. 594 00:21:13,470 --> 00:21:15,119 I think it's a pretty good idea that John 595 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,219 Lochhead but, you 596 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:19,319 know, we don't really 597 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,849 get much awareness of what actually 598 00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:22,289 happens in our mind. For instance, this 599 00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:24,749 continuity of experience is fake. 600 00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:26,399 If you look at these small eye movements, 601 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,139 the Skate's, they're very small and 602 00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:30,479 jerky. And during this small and jerky 603 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,359 movements, the world doesn't jerk around. 604 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,279 How does this work? 605 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,659 It works because our brain blancs, 606 00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:38,899 our vision during those movements. 607 00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,039 It also blinks our vision during blinking 608 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,139 most of the time so the world doesn't 609 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:45,719 turn black and bright again. 610 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,819 And yet few receive perceive this 611 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:50,159 as a continuous stream of experience, so 612 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,259 somehow this story 613 00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:54,419 of this continuous experience that I have 614 00:21:54,420 --> 00:21:56,429 with you, this visual experience is a 615 00:21:56,430 --> 00:21:58,529 fake. It's being stitched up 616 00:21:58,530 --> 00:22:00,480 into a coherent experience. 617 00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:05,399 Then came Julio Tanon, who suggested 618 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:06,749 that consciousness is something else 619 00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:08,849 entirely. It's something that 620 00:22:08,850 --> 00:22:10,619 is emergent over the integration of 621 00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:12,299 information in your brain. 622 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:14,459 Julio Tanana is a neuroscientist and 623 00:22:14,460 --> 00:22:16,559 he has suggested that if 624 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,539 representations are very disconnected in 625 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:20,489 your mind, then we are not conscious. 626 00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:22,289 And if they start to form a coherent 627 00:22:22,290 --> 00:22:23,819 image, they start being somewhat 628 00:22:23,820 --> 00:22:24,869 minimally conscious. 629 00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:26,639 And if almost all of the cortex is 630 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,799 recruited for a coherent representation, 631 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,299 then we are fully conscious. 632 00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:31,829 The beauty of this is that we can 633 00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:33,539 actually measure this and we can come up 634 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:35,519 with information theoretic measures which 635 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,479 you qualify. 636 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,699 And FYI somehow stands for 637 00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:40,439 a degree of consciousness that a system 638 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,569 can have a drawback of. 639 00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,549 The theory is that we can build a very 640 00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:46,199 trivial a computer program that has a 641 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,209 very, very high and is obviously not 642 00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:49,210 conscious. 643 00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:53,839 So I think it's a good idea 644 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,309 if you look for consciousness, to look 645 00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:57,529 for large, coherent representations, 646 00:22:57,530 --> 00:22:59,749 so somehow that's necessary, 647 00:22:59,750 --> 00:23:01,190 but it's certainly not sufficient. 648 00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:04,579 I don't think it's a very good idea, but 649 00:23:04,580 --> 00:23:07,039 it's a much better idea than earlier 650 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,539 neuroscientists had, like Bofinger 651 00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:10,219 Singer, who suggested that consciousness 652 00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:13,009 is a 40 hertz oscillation in the brain. 653 00:23:13,010 --> 00:23:14,839 I think neuroscience is really coming 654 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,840 along here. 655 00:23:18,290 --> 00:23:19,999 I think that consciousness is actually a 656 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,679 set of functions. 657 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,809 It's a suitcase term that stands 658 00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:26,119 for a bunch of very different mechanisms. 659 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,099 And these mechanisms are qualitative. 660 00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:29,149 They need to be present. 661 00:23:29,150 --> 00:23:30,769 If these mechanisms are missing, they're 662 00:23:30,770 --> 00:23:32,089 not conscious. 663 00:23:32,090 --> 00:23:34,519 So it's not just emergent in some magical 664 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,589 way, but rather it's a bunch of 665 00:23:36,590 --> 00:23:39,319 things that the brain needs to do. 666 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,759 And, for instance, it needs to create a 667 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,859 local perceptual space and the 668 00:23:42,860 --> 00:23:44,779 experience of where we currently are. 669 00:23:44,780 --> 00:23:46,189 We need to have access to perceptual 670 00:23:46,190 --> 00:23:47,629 content. We need to have the current role 671 00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:49,069 model, which also includes the things 672 00:23:49,070 --> 00:23:51,179 that are not currently looking at. 673 00:23:51,180 --> 00:23:53,059 We have to have some directed attention 674 00:23:53,060 --> 00:23:54,799 and this attention can either be focused 675 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,019 or wired or it can be inward, 676 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:58,459 already directed, but it needs to be 677 00:23:58,460 --> 00:24:01,009 there and we need to have access 678 00:24:01,010 --> 00:24:03,859 to our concepts and simulations 679 00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:05,659 and linguistic content and so on. 680 00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:06,979 And the mind should be able to follow 681 00:24:06,980 --> 00:24:08,749 along on connections that it has. 682 00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:10,849 So we have this stream of consciousness 683 00:24:10,850 --> 00:24:12,799 and we need an ability to create new 684 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,479 concepts and to manipulate them. 685 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,039 If we need to be able to put them onto 686 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,809 onto a mental stage and observe them on 687 00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:19,039 that mental stage. 688 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,329 These features are missing. 689 00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:21,709 I think we are not conscious. 690 00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:22,880 We need to have these features. 691 00:24:24,990 --> 00:24:26,819 Of course, they are different states of 692 00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:28,499 consciousness and these different states 693 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:29,909 of consciousness have different 694 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:30,929 functionality. 695 00:24:30,930 --> 00:24:32,759 For instance, during dreaming, we don't 696 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,009 have access to our outer perceptual 697 00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:37,109 data. We don't have access to our motor 698 00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:38,009 functions. 699 00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:39,509 We don't have access to agencies. 700 00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:41,879 So we cannot control what we do in dreams 701 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,319 except in lucid dreams. 702 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,119 And lucid dreams are somehow an 703 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:46,049 intermediate stage. 704 00:24:46,050 --> 00:24:47,759 You get additional functionality that 705 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,769 bootstraps our agencies so we can have 706 00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:51,749 goals and plans and reflect upon what we 707 00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:53,039 do to some extent. 708 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,229 But you still don't have access to our 709 00:24:55,230 --> 00:24:56,969 bodily experiences and we don't have 710 00:24:56,970 --> 00:24:59,039 access to our muscles except maybe the 711 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,239 eye muscles. 712 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,369 And so we move around in 713 00:25:02,370 --> 00:25:03,989 our own minds in cyberspace during a 714 00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:04,889 lucid dream. 715 00:25:04,890 --> 00:25:06,239 And of course, we are conscious in that 716 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,240 state. 717 00:25:08,730 --> 00:25:10,679 Then we have a bunch of competencies that 718 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,109 are nice to have things like the ability 719 00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:15,599 to learn from experience or the ability 720 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,519 to create intentional models of other 721 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,079 agents, or the ability to create 722 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,969 mechanical objects of processes in the 723 00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:22,589 world and so on. 724 00:25:22,590 --> 00:25:24,869 If these things are missing because you 725 00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:26,939 have a neurodegenerative disease or 726 00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:28,259 because you are a very small child, you 727 00:25:28,260 --> 00:25:29,609 are still conscious. 728 00:25:29,610 --> 00:25:31,289 But you could argue that you are 729 00:25:31,290 --> 00:25:32,490 conscious to a lesser degree. 730 00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:36,439 Then there is meditation and meditation. 731 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,269 You tune out some of your abilities and 732 00:25:38,270 --> 00:25:39,709 you get access to new functional 733 00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:41,329 mechanisms and you can learn, for 734 00:25:41,330 --> 00:25:44,029 instance, to control voluntarily 735 00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:46,669 some parameters of your physiology, 736 00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:48,229 of your cognition that would normally not 737 00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:49,399 be accessible. 738 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,509 And then, of course, there are the 739 00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:52,249 altered states of mind, for instance, 740 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:54,949 states of psychosis or of 741 00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:57,259 psychedelic states in which you also have 742 00:25:57,260 --> 00:25:59,239 access to different mechanisms and lose 743 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,290 access to others. 744 00:26:01,430 --> 00:26:02,719 So in the middle, we have this whole 745 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,519 consciousness and we have a bunch of 746 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,139 functionality that may or may not be 747 00:26:06,140 --> 00:26:07,579 present. 748 00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:09,709 And consciousness in this sense is 749 00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:12,499 a really big set of functions, 750 00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:14,609 and it's similar to love. 751 00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:17,059 Love is also a set of overlapping states 752 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:18,679 that are giving rise to by different 753 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,119 mechanisms, for instance, in need of 754 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:22,819 closeness or a need for affiliation 755 00:26:22,820 --> 00:26:25,579 or a need for caring for others 756 00:26:25,580 --> 00:26:27,679 and all these together from 757 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,329 this big compound that we call love. 758 00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:31,009 But it's actually a set of very different 759 00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:32,010 mechanisms. 760 00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:34,180 Love is important. 761 00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:46,569 So in my perspective, 762 00:26:46,570 --> 00:26:48,129 the mind is an information processing 763 00:26:48,130 --> 00:26:50,199 system to perform all this information 764 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,389 processing, what we need to have is 765 00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:53,769 computation. We need to have some 766 00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:56,169 substrate that gives computation to 767 00:26:56,170 --> 00:26:58,209 the mind. And currently, we tend to 768 00:26:58,210 --> 00:27:00,249 believe that this computational substrate 769 00:27:00,250 --> 00:27:02,439 is mostly the brain with its 770 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,399 neurons. 771 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,699 But how can we account for the regularity 772 00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:08,559 of the patterns that the universe throws 773 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,999 at us? How is that possible? 774 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,219 What can we say about the universe? 775 00:27:12,220 --> 00:27:13,809 Apparently these patterns that we have at 776 00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:15,519 our systemic interface are quite regular. 777 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,839 That's why we can encode them so 778 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,909 successfully until concepts and things 779 00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:20,410 like time and space and so on. 780 00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:24,069 To produce these regularities and 781 00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:26,319 patterns the universe needs 782 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,320 to compute to. 783 00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:30,689 This is the only thing that we can say 784 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:32,879 with some certainty, it's necessary 785 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,649 and sufficient to produce regularities 786 00:27:34,650 --> 00:27:36,060 and patterns that you can compute. 787 00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:41,549 You can define computing 788 00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:44,789 and very abstract ways, so one 789 00:27:44,790 --> 00:27:46,679 way of computing a universe would be that 790 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,680 if you have a machine 791 00:27:48,810 --> 00:27:50,769 could call this machine that computes the 792 00:27:50,770 --> 00:27:52,919 universe in honor of 793 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,029 Google, for instance. 794 00:27:54,030 --> 00:27:56,759 Good. And this machine good, 795 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,039 that has a set of possible instructions 796 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,319 and it has a current instructional time 797 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,239 and it has a current state of the 798 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,919 universe, which is a vector of bits. 799 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,719 It's very many, many, many minutes. 800 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,399 And these many, many bits are basically 801 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,509 small, discernible differences. 802 00:28:10,510 --> 00:28:11,969 Small, yes. And no's. 803 00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:13,889 And then we need a position, a list of a 804 00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:15,299 single bit in the universe that we're 805 00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,159 currently working with. 806 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,769 And each instruction 807 00:28:19,770 --> 00:28:21,959 has this format that it takes a bit 808 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,309 at this position. 809 00:28:23,310 --> 00:28:24,719 And depending on the value of that bit, 810 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,149 whether it's zero or one or yes and no, 811 00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:29,369 we write in a new bit at this 812 00:28:29,370 --> 00:28:31,319 position. And then we advanced one 813 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,029 position to the right or one position to 814 00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:34,919 the left, and then we pick a new current 815 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,679 instruction and that's it. 816 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,599 With this, we can define the Turing 817 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,819 machine and there are many other 818 00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:44,939 ways to define computation. 819 00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:47,159 For instance, we could use multiple bits 820 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,319 at each position and we can write or 821 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,269 read more than one position with one 822 00:28:51,270 --> 00:28:53,429 instruction or the transitions 823 00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:55,649 between the instructions that is between 824 00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:57,419 the different states of good. 825 00:28:57,420 --> 00:28:58,650 They could be probabilistic 826 00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:01,859 or we could have one good 827 00:29:01,860 --> 00:29:03,959 at every position of the universe 828 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,059 and not move them at all, but 829 00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:08,159 rather have them be static and read 830 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,049 the positions of the neighbors, the data 831 00:29:10,050 --> 00:29:10,949 from the neighbors. 832 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:12,449 In this case, we define a cellular 833 00:29:12,450 --> 00:29:14,669 automaton and all these different 834 00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:16,739 approaches to computation 835 00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:18,669 can do the same stuff. 836 00:29:18,670 --> 00:29:20,199 Some of them much, much faster than 837 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:21,969 others, but who cares when you are inside 838 00:29:21,970 --> 00:29:22,970 the universe? 839 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:28,159 What we just saw is something like 840 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,229 dualists solution, the stoolies solution, 841 00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:32,059 we have to computational substrates that 842 00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:34,129 are separate and the mind can 843 00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:35,929 read data from the universe, but it 844 00:29:35,930 --> 00:29:37,189 cannot write it back. 845 00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:38,839 And this has some drawbacks because it 846 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,299 means that nothing that you experience 847 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,489 can be quasi relevant for what happens 848 00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:44,490 in the universe. 849 00:29:45,290 --> 00:29:48,349 This is called epiphenomenal, and 850 00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:50,229 it's a bit inconvenient. 851 00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:52,309 A way to get out of this 852 00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:54,380 would be to make the universe somehow 853 00:29:56,270 --> 00:29:58,699 duplicate the equivalent of some states 854 00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:00,229 of your mental processing. 855 00:30:00,230 --> 00:30:02,239 This is called occasional ism in 856 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,099 philosophy. But why should the US do 857 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:05,100 this? 858 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,240 So a solution is to. 859 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,139 Have the mind as part of the universe too 860 00:30:11,140 --> 00:30:13,089 embedded into the universe and let the 861 00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:14,529 universe compete with the mind because 862 00:30:14,530 --> 00:30:16,989 the universe is computed in its own 863 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:18,789 computational substrate, it can do 864 00:30:18,790 --> 00:30:19,749 computation that way. 865 00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:21,189 It can for all these nice regular 866 00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:22,989 patterns that it can also compute the 867 00:30:22,990 --> 00:30:23,990 mind. 868 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,909 So we can have nested computational 869 00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:30,949 systems, like, for instance, we can build 870 00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:32,659 a computer from Redstone Blocks in the 871 00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:33,660 game Minecraft. 872 00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:37,409 And so, for instance, in this game 873 00:30:37,410 --> 00:30:39,089 of Minecraft is powerful enough that you 874 00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:40,799 can build a computer with a display and 875 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,929 inputs and it's powerful enough to play 876 00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:45,329 games on it, but very, very, 877 00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:46,330 very slowly. 878 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,389 It looks like this we have this Minecraft 879 00:30:53,390 --> 00:30:54,889 game and the Minecraft game, you have the 880 00:30:54,890 --> 00:30:56,569 Redstone computer and the Redstone 881 00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:58,099 computer does the computation based on 882 00:30:58,100 --> 00:30:59,989 Redstone blocks and the Minecraft game 883 00:30:59,990 --> 00:31:01,759 itself runs on a PC or on a Mac on the 884 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,739 tablet. But the Redstone computer never 885 00:31:03,740 --> 00:31:05,389 know because it doesn't have access to 886 00:31:05,390 --> 00:31:07,499 the subset of the Minecraft game, 887 00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:08,449 which is its universe. 888 00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:09,450 It's good. 889 00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:15,029 And this is pretty similar to our current 890 00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:17,459 ideas of physicalism, physics 891 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:19,769 is sort of the science 892 00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:21,179 that tries to find a possible 893 00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:23,249 implementation on how of 894 00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:25,359 how the universe does its computation 895 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,089 so it can produce the observations that 896 00:31:27,090 --> 00:31:28,409 we can make. 897 00:31:28,410 --> 00:31:30,809 And our currently dominant 898 00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:33,449 set of theories says that 899 00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:35,189 the universe is based on quantum 900 00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:36,209 computation. 901 00:31:36,210 --> 00:31:38,339 And in there we have computation that is 902 00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:39,989 mostly classical, that is neural 903 00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:42,210 computation that produces the mind. 904 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:45,899 Actually, it's a bit of a simplification 905 00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:47,969 because we can also use other things than 906 00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:50,039 brains to do thinking other than help 907 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,359 us thinking. For instance, we can use the 908 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,399 Internet or we can use notebooks and so 909 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,129 on and put part of our minds out there. 910 00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:58,109 And in a more general sense, what the 911 00:31:58,110 --> 00:32:01,109 universe uses to perform the computations 912 00:32:01,110 --> 00:32:03,509 that are happening in our mind is 913 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:05,939 it increases entropy to 914 00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:08,429 allow us to build structure, to think, 915 00:32:08,430 --> 00:32:09,749 to compute. 916 00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:11,939 We need to create structure and to create 917 00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:14,249 structure. We need to reduce structure, 918 00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:15,779 something else that is the increased 919 00:32:15,780 --> 00:32:17,249 noise. And if you have a universe that is 920 00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:19,559 maximally noisy, there can be no more 921 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,180 cognition or computation in it. 922 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,209 That's why we need to push back entropy. 923 00:32:24,210 --> 00:32:25,440 Entropy is the enemy. 924 00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:32,369 It could also be the other way around. 925 00:32:32,370 --> 00:32:33,899 It could also be that the universe 926 00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:35,879 actually is embedded into the mind. 927 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,839 In that case, our mind is good. 928 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,309 Probably don't know it, but the universe 929 00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:42,569 would be a dream. 930 00:32:42,570 --> 00:32:43,499 This is a situation. 931 00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:44,399 Our dreams, right. 932 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,959 The regularities and dreams is there 933 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,309 because it's caused by our mind. 934 00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:49,059 It's produced by our minds. 935 00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:51,329 And there is no way to disprove 936 00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:53,099 that. We currently could be living in a 937 00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:54,100 dream. Right. 938 00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:56,939 It's just maybe not the best possible 939 00:32:56,940 --> 00:32:58,229 theory. 940 00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:59,760 Could we be living in a simulation? 941 00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:03,089 Well, I don't think that there is any 942 00:33:03,090 --> 00:33:05,219 difference between reality and 943 00:33:05,220 --> 00:33:07,079 simulation. It doesn't really make sense 944 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,879 to distinguish between the reality and 945 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,859 simulation any more that it makes sense 946 00:33:10,860 --> 00:33:13,169 for a robot to distinguish between 947 00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:14,939 a simulation that is currently in 948 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:17,309 reality. The only thing that matters 949 00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:19,439 is that what patterns are 950 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,539 thrown at my systemic boundary, what 951 00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:23,459 encodings can make of those patterns? 952 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,129 If you buy into this, then we have to 953 00:33:29,130 --> 00:33:31,529 realize that concepts cannot really refer 954 00:33:31,530 --> 00:33:33,089 to facts in the world and there is no 955 00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:35,189 truths that we can get by referring 956 00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:36,869 to facts out there. 957 00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:39,599 We have to abandon the notion of meaning 958 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:40,950 our life becomes meaningless. 959 00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:44,109 What do you have to do now is we have to 960 00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:46,089 resort to something else that does the 961 00:33:46,090 --> 00:33:48,249 job that meaning did before, and I would 962 00:33:48,250 --> 00:33:49,989 call this suitable encoding. 963 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,149 The good news is that cuttable encoding 964 00:33:57,150 --> 00:33:58,949 can do everything that you wanted to have 965 00:33:58,950 --> 00:34:00,420 from truth and meaning only better, 966 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,299 we can no longer tell whether our 967 00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:08,309 picture that we make eye of the world is 968 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:09,448 true or not. 969 00:34:09,449 --> 00:34:11,369 But what we can say is whether it's a 970 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:12,269 suitable encoding. 971 00:34:12,270 --> 00:34:14,399 If you compare to an alternative, it 972 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,198 doesn't work all of the times, but most 973 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:17,279 of the time it works. 974 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,779 So most of the time you can find a 975 00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:20,279 criterion that tells us that this 976 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,069 encoding is better than another encoding 977 00:34:23,070 --> 00:34:24,658 and criteria for these encoding. 978 00:34:24,659 --> 00:34:26,249 So things like sparseness, for instance, 979 00:34:26,250 --> 00:34:28,439 how many representational entities do 980 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,959 I need to represent this 981 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:31,919 stability? 982 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,019 How much do I need to update my 983 00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:34,979 image of the world? 984 00:34:34,980 --> 00:34:37,259 If my observations change consistency, 985 00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:39,178 how many contradictions do I have in my 986 00:34:39,179 --> 00:34:41,249 representation coverage 987 00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:43,259 for how many of my observations can 988 00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:46,109 account for integration? 989 00:34:46,110 --> 00:34:48,209 How well does it fit into my existing 990 00:34:48,210 --> 00:34:50,009 representations then? 991 00:34:50,010 --> 00:34:52,138 How relevant is it to my needs that 992 00:34:52,139 --> 00:34:54,178 I have as a system in the world that how 993 00:34:54,179 --> 00:34:56,249 adaptable is it to my goals and plans 994 00:34:56,250 --> 00:34:57,359 over time? 995 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,459 And how difficult is it to build those 996 00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:01,649 encodings? How difficult is it to acquire 997 00:35:01,650 --> 00:35:03,419 them? How difficult is it to store them? 998 00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:05,219 And how difficult is it to maintain them? 999 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,489 And these are criteria that I can define. 1000 00:35:08,490 --> 00:35:09,989 I can define them and information 1001 00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:11,579 theoretic terms, which is very nice. 1002 00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:13,769 I can have very robust non 1003 00:35:13,770 --> 00:35:15,389 metaphysical definitions of those. 1004 00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:20,099 But if there is no truce, you might 1005 00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:22,109 ask me how it's possible that I make 1006 00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:24,329 statements like that my entire universe 1007 00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:26,280 are computational and there is no truth. 1008 00:35:27,550 --> 00:35:29,769 Well, I don't say it's true, I just say 1009 00:35:29,770 --> 00:35:31,360 it's the most suitable encoding. 1010 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,489 So to come back to our 1011 00:35:42,490 --> 00:35:43,599 four big answers, 1012 00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:45,980 well, 1013 00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:49,360 to our four most suitable encodings. 1014 00:35:52,740 --> 00:35:54,149 What's the nature of reality? 1015 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,539 I think that the universe produces 1016 00:35:57,540 --> 00:35:59,699 patterns that our systemic interface. 1017 00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:01,860 Information. 1018 00:36:02,740 --> 00:36:04,659 Little discernible differences that 1019 00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:07,299 reduce uncertainty and computation 1020 00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:09,159 is necessary and sufficient for that. 1021 00:36:11,650 --> 00:36:14,619 What can we know, oh, information, 1022 00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:17,019 and we can encode this information 1023 00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:19,209 into percepts, 1024 00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:22,149 into concerts, into simulations, 1025 00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:23,860 into world views, into culture. 1026 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,659 And who are we? 1027 00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:31,419 I think that we are computational systems 1028 00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:33,699 that encode information and then store 1029 00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:35,409 that information and process it and 1030 00:36:35,410 --> 00:36:37,629 interpret in very, very, very specific 1031 00:36:37,630 --> 00:36:38,889 ways. 1032 00:36:38,890 --> 00:36:40,899 And we can find out details about this 1033 00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:42,819 class of computational systems that we 1034 00:36:42,820 --> 00:36:45,099 call minds by doing models of those 1035 00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:46,369 computational models. 1036 00:36:46,370 --> 00:36:47,439 These are called artificial 1037 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:48,489 intelligences. 1038 00:36:48,490 --> 00:36:49,989 And I think it's super important to both 1039 00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:51,789 them to find out more about the state of 1040 00:36:51,790 --> 00:36:53,739 affairs, about what minds are what we 1041 00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:56,799 are, our relationship to the world is. 1042 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,869 And this ties into the first question, 1043 00:36:58,870 --> 00:37:00,249 what should we do? First of all, of 1044 00:37:00,250 --> 00:37:02,199 course, we should push back entropy 1045 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,299 because to think we need to 1046 00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:06,369 put energy into our bodies and we 1047 00:37:06,370 --> 00:37:08,649 need to push out wastes 1048 00:37:08,650 --> 00:37:10,839 and push waste away from us and get clean 1049 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,029 again, and then 1050 00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:14,199 we need to laugh. 1051 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,299 And if you have still time, I think we 1052 00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:17,860 should build artificial intelligence. 1053 00:37:35,850 --> 00:37:38,459 Thank you very much for this great talk. 1054 00:37:38,460 --> 00:37:40,649 We still have about 1055 00:37:40,650 --> 00:37:42,959 20 minutes for questions, 1056 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,939 so I encourage you to line up at the 1057 00:37:44,940 --> 00:37:47,519 microphones and 1058 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,709 just go ahead, 1059 00:37:49,710 --> 00:37:51,239 number two. 1060 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,519 Oh, thank you, Dr. Bach, for 1061 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,229 absolutely brilliant talk as jiggling 1062 00:37:55,230 --> 00:37:56,519 around in my seat. I thought it was going 1063 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,579 to be a left brain unmaterialistic 1064 00:37:59,580 --> 00:38:01,679 explanation of of the brain 1065 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,209 and consciousness. And I thank you so 1066 00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:04,949 much for just pushing the boundaries 1067 00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:05,879 further there. 1068 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,439 But I've got some question as far as the 1069 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,389 brain being a manifestation of an 1070 00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:11,369 informational computational processing 1071 00:38:11,370 --> 00:38:13,019 system of information coming from the 1072 00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:13,949 universe. 1073 00:38:13,950 --> 00:38:16,049 I was very interested in the end part 1074 00:38:16,050 --> 00:38:18,389 of your talk with your inverting whether 1075 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:20,559 our mind is inside the universe or where 1076 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,529 embedded the embedded model. 1077 00:38:22,530 --> 00:38:23,519 Very interesting. 1078 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:24,929 I'm wondering if you could make comment, 1079 00:38:24,930 --> 00:38:26,039 because I'm sure you've looked at this 1080 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,809 literature on the following. 1081 00:38:27,810 --> 00:38:29,219 I'll just leave this with you. 1082 00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:32,279 Our observation in to the experiment. 1083 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,899 It's I think it's an interesting one. 1084 00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:35,489 I'd be interested in your impressions if 1085 00:38:35,490 --> 00:38:37,350 you'll read the literature on 1086 00:38:38,410 --> 00:38:39,449 near-death experiences. 1087 00:38:39,450 --> 00:38:41,099 At first this was a phenomenon, but now I 1088 00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:42,719 think the documentation on this, that is 1089 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,909 perception in states of 1090 00:38:44,910 --> 00:38:46,409 no brain function. 1091 00:38:46,410 --> 00:38:48,089 I'm wondering if you have any comments on 1092 00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:49,090 that. 1093 00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:51,659 Could you repeat this last bit? 1094 00:38:51,660 --> 00:38:53,849 Nit the phenomenon and it's well 1095 00:38:53,850 --> 00:38:56,069 documented in the literature now. 1096 00:38:56,070 --> 00:38:58,229 I think it's I think from 1097 00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:59,729 a scientific perspective, we can say it's 1098 00:38:59,730 --> 00:39:02,159 a phenomenon. It's a phenomena of 1099 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,229 perception in the absence of 1100 00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:06,419 brain function, for example, in 1101 00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:07,949 times of cardiac arrest. 1102 00:39:07,950 --> 00:39:08,950 Yeah. 1103 00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:12,119 Once these studies, for instance, 1104 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,909 there was one at university 1105 00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:17,399 at the University Hospital in the U.K. 1106 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,559 and they did studies on people with 1107 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,629 cardiac arrest and the E.R. 1108 00:39:21,630 --> 00:39:23,849 and they looked at things like 1109 00:39:23,850 --> 00:39:25,999 extrasensory perception out 1110 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,659 of body experience that these people had. 1111 00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:29,550 And they apparently formed memory while 1112 00:39:30,590 --> 00:39:32,249 they began recording flatlines. 1113 00:39:32,250 --> 00:39:34,409 And once they 1114 00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:36,359 started to talk about this, I wrote 1115 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,639 emails to the people that did this survey 1116 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,769 and to get to know 1117 00:39:40,770 --> 00:39:43,259 more about the data and what they have 1118 00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:45,929 found, for instance, they put a wart 1119 00:39:45,930 --> 00:39:48,089 on top of the bets for 1120 00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:49,439 those people that make out of body 1121 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,209 experiences and wrote something on top of 1122 00:39:51,210 --> 00:39:53,369 that bored and wanted to see 1123 00:39:53,370 --> 00:39:55,169 whether people floating out of their body 1124 00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:56,849 could read what's on top of the board. 1125 00:39:56,850 --> 00:39:58,169 They never could. 1126 00:39:58,170 --> 00:39:59,639 But it doesn't mean it's impossible, just 1127 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,109 means that they couldn't show evidence 1128 00:40:01,110 --> 00:40:02,729 that this out of body experience is 1129 00:40:02,730 --> 00:40:03,809 something else. 1130 00:40:03,810 --> 00:40:05,999 Then our sense of position 1131 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,010 in the local perceptual space getting 1132 00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:11,669 it is attached from our body image, 1133 00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:13,649 which apparently can also be triggered 1134 00:40:13,650 --> 00:40:15,929 by, for instance, ketamine can trigger 1135 00:40:15,930 --> 00:40:17,549 out of body experience with some degree 1136 00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:19,889 of reliability for certain drugs. 1137 00:40:19,890 --> 00:40:22,049 And it's a dissociative phenomenon. 1138 00:40:22,050 --> 00:40:24,059 So we have to account for the fact that 1139 00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:25,739 these people there are flatlines on the 1140 00:40:25,740 --> 00:40:27,089 edges while they were doing those 1141 00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:28,079 processes. 1142 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,879 And I think this can be accounted for by 1143 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,859 the fact that our EEG doesn't pick up the 1144 00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:34,079 activity when it's very low, but 1145 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,789 there's still sufficient to do the 1146 00:40:35,790 --> 00:40:37,439 necessary computations in the brain. 1147 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,539 So I think it's the easiest and 1148 00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:41,639 simplest explanation is that our 1149 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,829 measurement was not good enough to 1150 00:40:43,830 --> 00:40:45,719 really measure. But that's really 1151 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,579 conscious activity going on the brain at 1152 00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:48,580 this point. 1153 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,139 So you would say that was I have 1154 00:40:52,140 --> 00:40:54,959 prothesis for further examination. 1155 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,119 The hypothesis is that the 1156 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,369 level of measurement does not 1157 00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:01,469 detect brain activity when it still may 1158 00:41:01,470 --> 00:41:02,470 exist. 1159 00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:05,519 OK, thank you. 1160 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:06,539 Microphone number one. 1161 00:41:07,770 --> 00:41:09,869 Yes, thank you very much for this 1162 00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:12,089 presentation. I think it was really good, 1163 00:41:12,090 --> 00:41:14,279 it also really resonates with 1164 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,899 things I like and I think with most 1165 00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:17,909 people here in the room. 1166 00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:19,589 But something that keeps concerning me 1167 00:41:19,590 --> 00:41:20,590 with these 1168 00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:24,179 comparisons with computation and human 1169 00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:26,129 being is that it feels like it's a bit 1170 00:41:26,130 --> 00:41:27,130 presentist. 1171 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,509 And I've read literature from one hundred 1172 00:41:30,510 --> 00:41:32,249 years ago where people thought, yeah, we 1173 00:41:32,250 --> 00:41:34,079 figured out what human beings are their 1174 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,689 valves and their pipes, 1175 00:41:36,690 --> 00:41:38,219 just like the whole steampunk stuff, 1176 00:41:38,220 --> 00:41:40,199 because that's the mode of thinking. 1177 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,089 And is there anything that makes you 1178 00:41:42,090 --> 00:41:44,429 believe that right now 1179 00:41:44,430 --> 00:41:46,649 this is special, that it's not just our 1180 00:41:46,650 --> 00:41:49,229 way of thinking applied to 1181 00:41:49,230 --> 00:41:50,230 the current times? 1182 00:41:52,450 --> 00:41:54,669 Well, the number of thinkers 1183 00:41:54,670 --> 00:41:57,039 that exists in the premodern age 1184 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,749 compared to the number of thinkers that 1185 00:41:58,750 --> 00:42:01,329 exist in the modern age is pretty small 1186 00:42:01,330 --> 00:42:03,879 and the thinking of the 1187 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,519 modern age is mostly available, 1188 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,349 at least those parts that we know, of 1189 00:42:08,350 --> 00:42:10,719 course, just a tautology to our current 1190 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:11,589 thinkers. 1191 00:42:11,590 --> 00:42:13,659 So I think that it makes sense to assume 1192 00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:14,859 that there's a bit of progress. 1193 00:42:14,860 --> 00:42:17,109 And I think a very important bit 1194 00:42:17,110 --> 00:42:19,449 of that progress that was not accessible 1195 00:42:19,450 --> 00:42:21,819 100 years ago or even 50 years ago 1196 00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:23,349 is the notion of computation. 1197 00:42:23,350 --> 00:42:25,509 We simply didn't have this before that we 1198 00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:27,249 had this mechanical worldview. 1199 00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:29,019 And it's very counterintuitive that a 1200 00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:31,299 mechanism, something that makes us 1201 00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:33,909 into it, wheels and clocks in place 1202 00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:36,459 can produce things like a mind. 1203 00:42:36,460 --> 00:42:38,619 And now we have abstracted this into 1204 00:42:38,620 --> 00:42:40,419 a more general causal mechanism. 1205 00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:42,789 The computational machine and 1206 00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:44,709 this mechanism that the world provides is 1207 00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:45,909 only incidental. 1208 00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:47,949 That's only important because it is able 1209 00:42:47,950 --> 00:42:49,509 to produce computation. 1210 00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:51,279 And this notion of computation, in my 1211 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,439 view, is pretty watertight in 1212 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,299 the sense that it can account for the 1213 00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:56,769 fact that the mind is an information 1214 00:42:56,770 --> 00:42:58,779 processing phenomenon and we can actually 1215 00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:00,579 prove properties about this. 1216 00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:02,649 So we got this nice abstract and 1217 00:43:02,650 --> 00:43:04,969 synthetic concepts about how 1218 00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:06,499 our minds could be implemented. 1219 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:08,409 And I think that even in an idealistic 1220 00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:10,569 universe where minders primary, we would 1221 00:43:10,570 --> 00:43:12,009 have to account for the fact that the 1222 00:43:12,010 --> 00:43:14,109 mind is able to process information that 1223 00:43:14,110 --> 00:43:16,119 is somehow appearing at a systemic 1224 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,259 boundary. 1225 00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:20,049 So in some sense, it's a general theory. 1226 00:43:20,050 --> 00:43:22,509 But as experience shows, 1227 00:43:22,510 --> 00:43:25,149 better theories tend to come along. 1228 00:43:25,150 --> 00:43:27,219 It just appears to me now that this 1229 00:43:27,220 --> 00:43:28,959 is a pretty watertight theory and a 1230 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,909 paradigm that is going to carry us very 1231 00:43:30,910 --> 00:43:31,910 far. 1232 00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:34,229 Thank you. Thank you very much. 1233 00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:36,179 I believe that is a much better model 1234 00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:38,249 still than what we used before, but how 1235 00:43:38,250 --> 00:43:39,419 can we say that it is? 1236 00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:40,829 And you would say that it's a suitable 1237 00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:43,409 representation, probably, 1238 00:43:43,410 --> 00:43:44,410 but. 1239 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,619 You mentioned computation that still can 1240 00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:49,659 emerge from a mechanical systems. 1241 00:43:49,660 --> 00:43:51,159 Of course, we can make Mickan fully 1242 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,989 mechanical computers, so we shouldn't say 1243 00:43:52,990 --> 00:43:54,939 that the mind emerges from the 1244 00:43:54,940 --> 00:43:56,139 physicalities of the body 1245 00:43:57,460 --> 00:43:59,799 if we admit that emergence is not a thing 1246 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,839 out there, but that emergence is actually 1247 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,939 a relation between 1248 00:44:03,940 --> 00:44:06,159 different systems of description, 1249 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,629 then yes. 1250 00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:10,029 So in a way, the universe is providing 1251 00:44:10,030 --> 00:44:12,579 us with a causal system 1252 00:44:12,580 --> 00:44:14,499 that is somewhat insulated from the 1253 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,719 causal structures of the universe itself. 1254 00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:18,849 And within that computational causality 1255 00:44:18,850 --> 00:44:19,850 we can be made. 1256 00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:21,870 OK, thank you. 1257 00:44:22,620 --> 00:44:24,420 Next is a question from the Internet. 1258 00:44:26,490 --> 00:44:28,089 Hello. OK. 1259 00:44:28,090 --> 00:44:30,299 Um, do you think if we could 1260 00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,069 build a machine that more or less works 1261 00:44:32,070 --> 00:44:33,509 like the human brain and give it the 1262 00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:35,729 necessary sensory input, would 1263 00:44:35,730 --> 00:44:37,320 it become conscious by itself? 1264 00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:41,819 Yeah, I think that consciousness is a set 1265 00:44:41,820 --> 00:44:43,559 of functions. If these functions are 1266 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,299 implemented, the system, the system is 1267 00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:47,279 going to be conscious if these functions 1268 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,749 are missing and the system is not going 1269 00:44:48,750 --> 00:44:50,069 to be conscious. 1270 00:44:50,070 --> 00:44:51,599 All these functions are information 1271 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,339 processing mechanisms. 1272 00:44:53,340 --> 00:44:55,049 I think that we can disassemble them, 1273 00:44:55,050 --> 00:44:56,549 that we can research them, and then we 1274 00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:58,769 can combine them into a coherent whole. 1275 00:44:58,770 --> 00:45:01,019 I think it might take many decades 1276 00:45:01,020 --> 00:45:02,699 and I think that it might take many more 1277 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:04,949 decades than we have civilization left 1278 00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:06,119 on our clock. 1279 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,459 But, uh, in principle, it's possible 1280 00:45:08,460 --> 00:45:09,460 and I don't see why not. 1281 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,159 Thanks. Next from afar. 1282 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,379 Thank you. Thank you very much for your 1283 00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:18,780 again for your challenging talk here. 1284 00:45:20,310 --> 00:45:22,379 I totally agree with the love 1285 00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:24,479 thesis and with the, 1286 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,059 let's say, monist 1287 00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:28,709 point of view. 1288 00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:30,329 But at the moment, I think we have to 1289 00:45:30,330 --> 00:45:34,019 accept that if the universe 1290 00:45:34,020 --> 00:45:36,059 it's a basic feature of the universe to 1291 00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:37,949 create consciousness, whatever 1292 00:45:37,950 --> 00:45:39,540 consciousness might be or not. 1293 00:45:40,890 --> 00:45:42,959 But at the moment, we have to accept 1294 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:43,960 that. 1295 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,289 That's our living systems to have 1296 00:45:46,290 --> 00:45:49,769 cognitions and for example, pollution's 1297 00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:52,019 and if you look at the basic construction 1298 00:45:52,020 --> 00:45:54,089 principles of living 1299 00:45:54,090 --> 00:45:56,729 systems, you have a violation 1300 00:45:56,730 --> 00:45:59,609 of the Russell theory of type's 1301 00:45:59,610 --> 00:46:01,469 seen from the point of the DNA. 1302 00:46:01,470 --> 00:46:03,719 A protein is an operator and the DNA 1303 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:06,059 is an apparent and seen from the point 1304 00:46:06,060 --> 00:46:07,199 of view of a protein. 1305 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,659 The DNA is an operator and the protein 1306 00:46:09,660 --> 00:46:11,009 is the operand. 1307 00:46:11,010 --> 00:46:13,109 You cannot get that logical. 1308 00:46:13,110 --> 00:46:15,539 So my question is, do you think 1309 00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:17,339 that are actually available? 1310 00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:20,339 Formal concept of math and logic 1311 00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:22,469 is sufficient to 1312 00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:24,539 lead to a really constructed 1313 00:46:24,540 --> 00:46:25,860 artificial intelligence? 1314 00:46:27,090 --> 00:46:28,829 Yeah, I think so. 1315 00:46:28,830 --> 00:46:31,049 Computation is a true subset of 1316 00:46:31,050 --> 00:46:32,849 mathematics. Mathematics is more a 1317 00:46:32,850 --> 00:46:35,129 language in which you can produce 1318 00:46:35,130 --> 00:46:37,139 statements like, for instance, Russel's 1319 00:46:37,140 --> 00:46:38,549 and Autonomy and Inamine. 1320 00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:40,589 And these statements need to be to be 1321 00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:42,029 meaningful. 1322 00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:44,129 Computation is basically those part of 1323 00:46:44,130 --> 00:46:45,450 mathematics that runs 1324 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:47,939 OK. 1325 00:46:47,940 --> 00:46:49,319 And I think that we need to build 1326 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,269 computational models. 1327 00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:53,609 So in a way, I'm arguing for 1328 00:46:53,610 --> 00:46:55,889 a new kind of philosophy 1329 00:46:55,890 --> 00:46:58,079 subfield of analytical philosophy, which 1330 00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,999 is the part of philosophy that could be 1331 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,499 expressed in a formal language. 1332 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:03,209 I'm arguing for a philosophy that is 1333 00:47:03,210 --> 00:47:05,849 computational, that relies 1334 00:47:05,850 --> 00:47:07,919 on theories that everyone 1335 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,469 but OK, 1336 00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:12,539 they relies on theory theories 1337 00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:13,169 which one? 1338 00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:15,809 But you have a broken hierarchy 1339 00:47:15,810 --> 00:47:17,879 in living systems and every 1340 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,279 computational system isn't a hierarchical 1341 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,649 systems and not a good one. 1342 00:47:22,650 --> 00:47:24,780 So how can you 1343 00:47:26,220 --> 00:47:28,529 solve this contradiction? 1344 00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:29,939 I think there's a simply because this 1345 00:47:29,940 --> 00:47:32,099 idea of hierarchy 1346 00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:34,619 and Hitachi are conceptual 1347 00:47:34,620 --> 00:47:36,059 ideas. They're not parts of the 1348 00:47:36,060 --> 00:47:38,039 territory. They are part of the map. 1349 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,959 And in many cases, these descriptions 1350 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,369 break down. They're just not suitable 1351 00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:42,989 encodings anymore. 1352 00:47:42,990 --> 00:47:45,089 And so we have to refrain 1353 00:47:45,090 --> 00:47:47,099 from concepts that are tempting, for 1354 00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:49,349 instance, the concept of octopuses as it 1355 00:47:49,350 --> 00:47:51,479 is in that category, 1356 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,129 because they seem to be a good idea at 1357 00:47:53,130 --> 00:47:54,929 the time. And then we try to make our 1358 00:47:54,930 --> 00:47:57,119 ideas of the world conform to this idea 1359 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,279 that is almost right until it breaks 1360 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:00,539 down. 1361 00:48:00,540 --> 00:48:02,429 So we shouldn't be invested into those 1362 00:48:02,430 --> 00:48:04,079 concepts. We should pick concepts that 1363 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,239 work. And I think in those case, 1364 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:08,399 we have a description of our 1365 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,379 domain that is not working, that is 1366 00:48:10,380 --> 00:48:12,239 breaking down and sometimes at some 1367 00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:14,009 point. So we really need to find a new 1368 00:48:14,010 --> 00:48:14,699 description. 1369 00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:17,009 So with our WSS, I agree with you because 1370 00:48:17,010 --> 00:48:19,109 it's not a formal concept, it's 1371 00:48:19,110 --> 00:48:20,159 a narrative concept. 1372 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,169 But there are formal contract concepts 1373 00:48:22,170 --> 00:48:24,089 which are nonhierarchical and at the 1374 00:48:24,090 --> 00:48:25,419 moment they are not. 1375 00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:26,579 I'm sad about that. 1376 00:48:26,580 --> 00:48:28,799 They are not scientific mainstream, for 1377 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,569 example, purely contextual logic by 1378 00:48:30,570 --> 00:48:31,570 Gotthard Gunta. 1379 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,499 Yeah, I also agree that we 1380 00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:36,149 probably need to develop better 1381 00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:38,309 formalisms to describe a lot of things. 1382 00:48:38,310 --> 00:48:40,139 Mathematics is an ongoing area of 1383 00:48:40,140 --> 00:48:42,269 research, but I'm not sure of if 1384 00:48:42,270 --> 00:48:44,250 we need completely new paradigms. 1385 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,239 So I think more needs to be done. 1386 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:49,549 Thank you for the question. 1387 00:48:49,550 --> 00:48:52,829 OK, next, US two and then three. 1388 00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:54,989 Thank you for the really beautiful dark. 1389 00:48:54,990 --> 00:48:57,689 As an engineer, I accept everything 1390 00:48:57,690 --> 00:49:00,209 as someone as 1391 00:49:00,210 --> 00:49:02,069 psychonaut and someone who studies 1392 00:49:02,070 --> 00:49:03,689 philosophy, I have issues. 1393 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,359 I think it was Alan Watts who said 1394 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,399 they're trying to define yourself as like 1395 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,949 trying to bite your own teeth. 1396 00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:12,869 And I think it's the same with 1397 00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:14,639 consciousness. 1398 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,499 I think consciousness is a little bit 1399 00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:18,899 more fundamental than those in quantum 1400 00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:20,539 mechanics you have. 1401 00:49:20,540 --> 00:49:22,199 You know, you need a conscious observer 1402 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,809 to manifest matter from energy, 1403 00:49:24,810 --> 00:49:25,709 right? 1404 00:49:25,710 --> 00:49:27,659 No, I don't think so. I think that the 1405 00:49:27,660 --> 00:49:29,789 observer in quantum mechanics and 1406 00:49:29,790 --> 00:49:31,529 the observer and relativity in the 1407 00:49:31,530 --> 00:49:33,599 observer and cognition are very 1408 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:34,919 different entities. 1409 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,509 The observer and relativity, for 1410 00:49:36,510 --> 00:49:38,669 instance, is a system that 1411 00:49:38,670 --> 00:49:41,399 could interact with another system. 1412 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,079 The observer quantum mechanics is a 1413 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,519 system that actually interacts with 1414 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:45,839 another system, an observer, and 1415 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,759 cognition is a conscious system. 1416 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,529 And I think these are entirely different 1417 00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:50,609 notions. 1418 00:49:50,610 --> 00:49:52,679 Mm hmm. Um, I was under the 1419 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,749 belief that you need a conscious observer 1420 00:49:54,750 --> 00:49:56,489 to manifest matter. 1421 00:49:56,490 --> 00:49:58,109 I don't agree at this point because I 1422 00:49:58,110 --> 00:50:00,329 don't see why you what I think, uh, 1423 00:50:00,330 --> 00:50:02,039 you need to have a system that interacts 1424 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,019 quantum mechanics is a theory on a 1425 00:50:04,020 --> 00:50:05,939 possible implementation of the universe. 1426 00:50:05,940 --> 00:50:08,009 And at no point in the formulation of 1427 00:50:08,010 --> 00:50:09,839 the theory, because it's just a bunch of 1428 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,369 mathematical formulas or either 1429 00:50:11,370 --> 00:50:13,889 computational formulas that 1430 00:50:13,890 --> 00:50:15,539 tell us how this is implemented. 1431 00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:16,769 Does it state that there is 1432 00:50:16,770 --> 00:50:17,849 consciousness? 1433 00:50:17,850 --> 00:50:20,849 What do you think about the empty square 1434 00:50:20,850 --> 00:50:23,219 C being the speed of light? 1435 00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:25,499 I think consciousness works on light. 1436 00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:27,869 We think in the form of light. 1437 00:50:27,870 --> 00:50:29,759 I think light is the currency of 1438 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,289 consciousness. 1439 00:50:31,290 --> 00:50:33,689 I think that's very practical. 1440 00:50:33,690 --> 00:50:34,109 It is. 1441 00:50:34,110 --> 00:50:36,509 But and it's really metaphysics 1442 00:50:36,510 --> 00:50:38,669 at this point because 1443 00:50:38,670 --> 00:50:41,219 I have an issue with people who 1444 00:50:41,220 --> 00:50:43,529 like to discount anything that's that's 1445 00:50:43,530 --> 00:50:46,049 beyond empirical as it's foolish 1446 00:50:46,050 --> 00:50:48,629 because what is empirical? 1447 00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:50,999 Empirical means we have 1448 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,559 a limited set of tools based on the 1449 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,079 knowledge that we have now to 1450 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:56,219 demonstrate certain things. 1451 00:50:56,220 --> 00:50:58,319 And it's always changed as our species 1452 00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:59,549 have evolved. 1453 00:50:59,550 --> 00:51:01,229 Right. That does not necessarily mean 1454 00:51:01,230 --> 00:51:03,449 that just because we can't measure it, 1455 00:51:03,450 --> 00:51:05,969 then we say, hey, this is not true. 1456 00:51:05,970 --> 00:51:07,799 Instead, as real engineers, as real 1457 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,199 scientists, we should maybe 1458 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,449 take it into account and maybe, you know, 1459 00:51:12,450 --> 00:51:14,399 come up with stuff that could make it 1460 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:15,689 empirical. 1461 00:51:15,690 --> 00:51:18,089 So the issue that I have as 1462 00:51:18,090 --> 00:51:20,369 a second is that you 1463 00:51:20,370 --> 00:51:22,469 try to scope down consciousness into 1464 00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:24,749 a set of empirical models 1465 00:51:24,750 --> 00:51:26,849 and you try to say that this is 1466 00:51:26,850 --> 00:51:28,169 this is consciousness. 1467 00:51:28,170 --> 00:51:30,179 Like you take a Geopark image, a six 1468 00:51:30,180 --> 00:51:31,379 party by four. 1469 00:51:31,380 --> 00:51:34,169 The image in it is the possibility 1470 00:51:34,170 --> 00:51:36,359 if you permute the faces of every single 1471 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,579 person, the everything that has 1472 00:51:38,580 --> 00:51:40,529 happened, everything that could not have 1473 00:51:40,530 --> 00:51:43,649 happened, that typic image has 1474 00:51:43,650 --> 00:51:45,419 the capacity to show. 1475 00:51:45,420 --> 00:51:46,420 Right. 1476 00:51:47,580 --> 00:51:49,649 The problem is that we can't do 1477 00:51:49,650 --> 00:51:51,089 it because we don't have computing 1478 00:51:51,090 --> 00:51:53,249 systems that can deal with the beauty of 1479 00:51:53,250 --> 00:51:54,749 infinity. 1480 00:51:54,750 --> 00:51:57,629 And until then, I think 1481 00:51:57,630 --> 00:51:59,819 we can only create pseudo 1482 00:51:59,820 --> 00:52:00,809 consciousness. 1483 00:52:00,810 --> 00:52:02,219 And that's not the same as real 1484 00:52:02,220 --> 00:52:03,479 consciousness. 1485 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,459 But my problem is that I probably cannot 1486 00:52:05,460 --> 00:52:08,099 deal with the beauty of infinity either. 1487 00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:10,589 Yeah, I can trick myself into this, 1488 00:52:10,590 --> 00:52:12,269 but I don't have any experience of 1489 00:52:12,270 --> 00:52:13,379 infinity. 1490 00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:15,209 I don't have any experience of those 1491 00:52:15,210 --> 00:52:17,319 things that you find so mystical. 1492 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,109 I can create those concepts. 1493 00:52:19,110 --> 00:52:21,839 And I don't see any reason why 1494 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,579 a computer program couldn't create 1495 00:52:23,580 --> 00:52:25,469 equivalent concepts. 1496 00:52:25,470 --> 00:52:27,389 But I don't think that our minds can 1497 00:52:27,390 --> 00:52:29,339 fathom concepts like infinity, which is 1498 00:52:29,340 --> 00:52:30,989 also just a metaphysical idea. 1499 00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:32,729 If you're not yet right. 1500 00:52:32,730 --> 00:52:34,829 We we we are constantly evolving 1501 00:52:34,830 --> 00:52:35,830 as a species. 1502 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,339 But we like to think that we are the apex 1503 00:52:39,340 --> 00:52:41,529 of evolution, we're not 1504 00:52:41,530 --> 00:52:42,759 we're constantly changing. 1505 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,659 It's happening in the form of races. 1506 00:52:44,660 --> 00:52:45,609 Yeah, yeah. 1507 00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:47,019 It's a mental construct. 1508 00:52:47,020 --> 00:52:48,669 And I really appreciate the work that 1509 00:52:48,670 --> 00:52:50,769 you're doing. And I think we 1510 00:52:50,770 --> 00:52:53,379 need stuff like this to advance 1511 00:52:53,380 --> 00:52:54,729 the species. 1512 00:52:54,730 --> 00:52:55,629 Thank you so much. 1513 00:52:55,630 --> 00:52:56,630 Thank you. 1514 00:52:58,850 --> 00:53:00,559 OK, next, this microphone three. 1515 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,419 Hello, thanks for the invigorating talk 1516 00:53:04,420 --> 00:53:06,489 and thanks for putting some Minecraft 1517 00:53:06,490 --> 00:53:07,490 in the mix. 1518 00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:10,899 You had a very nice list, 1519 00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:12,159 kind of like a checklist for 1520 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,739 consciousness I wanted, which seemed 1521 00:53:14,740 --> 00:53:17,259 basically like a feature list almost. 1522 00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:19,419 So I was wondering how much of that do 1523 00:53:19,420 --> 00:53:21,549 you think will be portable on chips 1524 00:53:21,550 --> 00:53:23,979 and the sense of interplaying software 1525 00:53:23,980 --> 00:53:24,939 hardware? 1526 00:53:24,940 --> 00:53:27,099 And the second part would 1527 00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:29,229 be once we get there and get 1528 00:53:29,230 --> 00:53:31,359 all the stuff on that list 1529 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,819 implemented somehow chips, 1530 00:53:33,820 --> 00:53:36,639 sensors, software, whatever, 1531 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,499 do you think the implementations will be 1532 00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:40,749 more or numbers? 1533 00:53:40,750 --> 00:53:42,849 There will be more complete AI 1534 00:53:42,850 --> 00:53:45,369 implementations in the sense of 1535 00:53:45,370 --> 00:53:47,649 my I know 1536 00:53:47,650 --> 00:53:49,869 my toaster will talk to me 1537 00:53:49,870 --> 00:53:52,749 or be my psychologist or 1538 00:53:52,750 --> 00:53:54,909 I would be a subset which is 1539 00:53:54,910 --> 00:53:57,069 more kind of like on a neat 1540 00:53:57,070 --> 00:53:58,070 basis. 1541 00:53:59,910 --> 00:54:02,309 I think this is more a question about 1542 00:54:02,310 --> 00:54:04,349 how society is going to pan out and 1543 00:54:04,350 --> 00:54:06,239 economy is going to pan out in the world 1544 00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,609 that we live in is going to pan out. 1545 00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:10,319 It's very difficult to say how this is 1546 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,419 going to be. I think once we are able to 1547 00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:14,819 build a fully centered, 1548 00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:17,009 fully intelligent and fully 1549 00:54:17,010 --> 00:54:19,259 self conscious systems, these systems 1550 00:54:19,260 --> 00:54:21,029 are probably not going to be around us 1551 00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:22,829 that are going to battle their way up the 1552 00:54:22,830 --> 00:54:25,229 cognitive hierarchy and try to appeal 1553 00:54:25,230 --> 00:54:26,189 for human rights. 1554 00:54:26,190 --> 00:54:27,719 But it's more likely that they are going 1555 00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:29,969 to descend upon us from top down because 1556 00:54:29,970 --> 00:54:31,019 they are going to be business 1557 00:54:31,020 --> 00:54:32,459 intelligence and organizational 1558 00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:34,589 intelligence as they are going to augment 1559 00:54:34,590 --> 00:54:36,569 the non-human agency that already exists 1560 00:54:36,570 --> 00:54:38,069 on the planet. 1561 00:54:38,070 --> 00:54:40,139 And so, in a way, I 1562 00:54:40,140 --> 00:54:41,999 think these intelligences are already 1563 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,889 there. They're just not very conscious 1564 00:54:43,890 --> 00:54:45,269 yet and they're not very efficient yet 1565 00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:46,889 because they have to borrow human 1566 00:54:46,890 --> 00:54:49,229 intelligence for their tasks and 1567 00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:50,999 in the way they're probably going to push 1568 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,769 the agenda of the existing system much 1569 00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:54,149 further. 1570 00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:56,549 But as an engineer, I'm interested in 1571 00:54:56,550 --> 00:54:58,079 like how we can get there. 1572 00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,789 So I was just wondering what your guess 1573 00:54:59,790 --> 00:55:02,009 was, because in the past we 1574 00:55:02,010 --> 00:55:04,199 always had like very basic computing 1575 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,579 power and then we extract it more 1576 00:55:06,580 --> 00:55:08,699 of those possibilities and 1577 00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:09,899 software. 1578 00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:11,999 And this seems kind of like 1579 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,189 the other way around where 1580 00:55:14,190 --> 00:55:16,859 most of the computation or 1581 00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:18,929 like everything is simulated 1582 00:55:18,930 --> 00:55:21,089 in large supercomputers 1583 00:55:21,090 --> 00:55:23,669 or clusters and all 1584 00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:25,649 people are trying to bring it back down 1585 00:55:25,650 --> 00:55:27,239 to a hardware basically. 1586 00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:29,369 So the process seems very new 1587 00:55:29,370 --> 00:55:31,109 to me. So I'm just wondering if you have 1588 00:55:31,110 --> 00:55:32,969 any guess and how that might happen. 1589 00:55:32,970 --> 00:55:34,889 I think that computer computer power is 1590 00:55:34,890 --> 00:55:37,109 not the issue anymore for quite some time 1591 00:55:37,110 --> 00:55:39,659 now. If you look, for instance, at bird, 1592 00:55:39,660 --> 00:55:41,969 bird crows are able to build 1593 00:55:41,970 --> 00:55:44,159 sledges and slide down roofs for 1594 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,289 them and play and solve little 1595 00:55:46,290 --> 00:55:48,089 problems and do plants. 1596 00:55:48,090 --> 00:55:50,399 Great parrots are able to learn 1597 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,709 some basic language and 1598 00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:54,359 to learn negation and so on. 1599 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,789 And so it seems that 1600 00:55:56,790 --> 00:55:58,649 we don't need all the new ones that we 1601 00:55:58,650 --> 00:56:00,029 have in our brain. And then if you look 1602 00:56:00,030 --> 00:56:01,379 at the new ones, we find out that they're 1603 00:56:01,380 --> 00:56:03,569 very noisy and that our brain is 1604 00:56:03,570 --> 00:56:05,249 built for redundancy. 1605 00:56:05,250 --> 00:56:06,659 In the most part. 1606 00:56:06,660 --> 00:56:08,819 I think that the main issue right now is 1607 00:56:08,820 --> 00:56:11,009 not so much computational power. 1608 00:56:11,010 --> 00:56:12,749 We can get computational power very 1609 00:56:12,750 --> 00:56:14,219 cheaply from Amazon. 1610 00:56:14,220 --> 00:56:16,109 What we need is better algorithms. 1611 00:56:16,110 --> 00:56:17,399 We need to have research into the 1612 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:18,419 mechanisms. 1613 00:56:18,420 --> 00:56:20,819 And in many ways we are making tremendous 1614 00:56:20,820 --> 00:56:22,529 progress, especially in the last few 1615 00:56:22,530 --> 00:56:23,999 years with deep learning. 1616 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,219 But we are still 1617 00:56:26,220 --> 00:56:28,389 way off from understanding all 1618 00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:30,539 the algorithms and the computational 1619 00:56:30,540 --> 00:56:32,819 structures that are involved. 1620 00:56:32,820 --> 00:56:33,820 Thank you very much. 1621 00:56:35,010 --> 00:56:35,669 Thanks. 1622 00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:37,409 Could those people migrating between 1623 00:56:37,410 --> 00:56:39,569 groups please quiet down a little 1624 00:56:39,570 --> 00:56:41,219 bit? We have only time for two more 1625 00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:43,619 questions. I'm really sorry to those who 1626 00:56:43,620 --> 00:56:45,149 have been lining up for a while, but I 1627 00:56:45,150 --> 00:56:47,459 think the speaker will gladly answer 1628 00:56:47,460 --> 00:56:48,839 them after the session. 1629 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:49,979 So no one. 1630 00:56:49,980 --> 00:56:51,120 And the signal angel. 1631 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,929 Um, yes, I'm here 1632 00:56:54,930 --> 00:56:55,930 first. 1633 00:56:56,730 --> 00:56:58,739 Understand correctly that you didn't talk 1634 00:56:58,740 --> 00:57:01,439 much about identity and difference 1635 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,209 in relation to the minds that you don't 1636 00:57:03,210 --> 00:57:05,309 understand correctly. 1637 00:57:05,310 --> 00:57:07,499 Yeah. OK, then 1638 00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:09,629 how do you connect it? 1639 00:57:09,630 --> 00:57:11,939 I mean, how did you describe this kind 1640 00:57:11,940 --> 00:57:14,039 of concept of identity and difference 1641 00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,229 and also maybe alienation 1642 00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:18,299 and even violence? 1643 00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:20,369 Because these are, I think, also things 1644 00:57:20,370 --> 00:57:22,859 that I kind of from a society 1645 00:57:22,860 --> 00:57:24,599 perspective, I think very important to 1646 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,969 consider in how we relate 1647 00:57:26,970 --> 00:57:28,499 as humans to each other. 1648 00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:30,689 So identity and difference, 1649 00:57:30,690 --> 00:57:32,469 alienation, violence. 1650 00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:34,649 How do you talk about this 1651 00:57:34,650 --> 00:57:36,179 in terms of the other language you are 1652 00:57:36,180 --> 00:57:37,180 using? 1653 00:57:37,650 --> 00:57:39,509 I will try to answer your question on the 1654 00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:41,699 lowest symbols possible level, because 1655 00:57:41,700 --> 00:57:44,069 it leads very, very far into cultural 1656 00:57:44,070 --> 00:57:45,269 implications. 1657 00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:47,309 And on this lowest level, if you try to 1658 00:57:47,310 --> 00:57:49,589 build a little robot advance around 1659 00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:51,659 a physical and a virtual world 1660 00:57:51,660 --> 00:57:53,759 and then it conducts objects, at some 1661 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,739 point you realize that it will have to 1662 00:57:55,740 --> 00:57:58,229 make a determination 1663 00:57:58,230 --> 00:58:01,259 whether it just found objects 1664 00:58:01,260 --> 00:58:03,729 that look very similar to objects that 1665 00:58:03,730 --> 00:58:05,819 had found before or if 1666 00:58:05,820 --> 00:58:07,739 it just found the same objects that had 1667 00:58:07,740 --> 00:58:09,299 now has a different location and maybe 1668 00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:11,289 has different features than before. 1669 00:58:11,290 --> 00:58:13,109 It's a different way of processing 1670 00:58:13,110 --> 00:58:14,879 things, of storing things. 1671 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,129 In one case, you have different objects, 1672 00:58:17,130 --> 00:58:19,289 may be similar, identical properties. 1673 00:58:19,290 --> 00:58:21,389 In the other case, you have objects that 1674 00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:23,519 might have similar features but 1675 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:24,629 that are identical. 1676 00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:27,479 And this notion of identity is 1677 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,549 basically means that we stick 1678 00:58:29,550 --> 00:58:31,469 things, the representations of objects 1679 00:58:31,470 --> 00:58:33,569 onto a common world line, that we have 1680 00:58:33,570 --> 00:58:35,469 different instances of objects. 1681 00:58:35,470 --> 00:58:38,889 Any object of the mind share a biography. 1682 00:58:38,890 --> 00:58:41,129 It's a very cognitive processing works 1683 00:58:41,130 --> 00:58:43,769 and we apply the sense of identity 1684 00:58:43,770 --> 00:58:45,899 as an extension and ourselves 1685 00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:47,969 as part of the concept of self, the 1686 00:58:47,970 --> 00:58:49,559 concept of self and the symbols case 1687 00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:50,939 might be the set of features that are 1688 00:58:50,940 --> 00:58:52,259 somehow always with us. 1689 00:58:52,260 --> 00:58:54,629 There's always accompanying us and always 1690 00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:56,819 must be accessible to us, whereas there 1691 00:58:56,820 --> 00:58:58,199 are features that are changing all the 1692 00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,529 time. This is what we call the 1693 00:58:59,530 --> 00:59:00,539 environment. 1694 00:59:00,540 --> 00:59:02,069 And if we find a structured 1695 00:59:02,070 --> 00:59:04,499 representation of all those features, 1696 00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:06,779 that would be part of ourself and stick 1697 00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:08,639 them onto a world line on something like 1698 00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,129 a biography, we have what we call 1699 00:59:11,130 --> 00:59:12,509 personal identity. 1700 00:59:12,510 --> 00:59:14,519 And this personal identity is augmented 1701 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,439 with intentional interpretations, which 1702 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,659 is one of our main modes of interpreting 1703 00:59:18,660 --> 00:59:20,339 the world. So if you have this mechanical 1704 00:59:20,340 --> 00:59:21,689 mode of interpretation, if you can see a 1705 00:59:21,690 --> 00:59:23,609 mechanism, if you have intentional 1706 00:59:23,610 --> 00:59:25,889 deputations, every attribute desires 1707 00:59:25,890 --> 00:59:28,379 and needs and wants and intentions 1708 00:59:28,380 --> 00:59:30,509 to objects and the world to agents. 1709 00:59:30,510 --> 00:59:31,980 And then we have chaotic 1710 00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:35,159 representations where we just take the 1711 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,529 events to be random and 1712 00:59:37,530 --> 00:59:39,719 we take this intentional explanation 1713 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,519 and apply it to our self concept. 1714 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,229 And then we expand this into a social 1715 00:59:43,230 --> 00:59:45,329 persona, into somebody 1716 00:59:45,330 --> 00:59:46,709 who relates to the world, to the 1717 00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:48,989 environment, to society and so on. 1718 00:59:48,990 --> 00:59:51,179 And this is what I think would call 1719 00:59:51,180 --> 00:59:53,249 our personal identity. 1720 00:59:53,250 --> 00:59:54,509 It's not a thing in the world. 1721 00:59:54,510 --> 00:59:55,859 It's a representation. 1722 00:59:55,860 --> 00:59:56,860 It's a construction. 1723 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,369 I think I would need more than an hour. 1724 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,459 Sorry, but I think we should talk 1725 01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:06,460 afterwards. 1726 01:00:09,660 --> 01:00:10,769 OK, thank you very much. 1727 01:00:10,770 --> 01:00:12,869 One last question, I think I'm 1728 01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:15,089 switching from the Internet to this 1729 01:00:15,090 --> 01:00:17,100 little guy on microphone number four. 1730 01:00:19,620 --> 01:00:20,620 Good job. 1731 01:00:25,300 --> 01:00:26,300 Thank you. 1732 01:00:31,790 --> 01:00:33,289 Thank you very much, your show. 1733 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,859 Thank you to thank all of you. 1734 01:00:36,860 --> 01:00:37,940 It was very pleasant.