0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/511 Thanks! 1 00:00:09,210 --> 00:00:11,369 It's going to be a reflection about 2 00:00:11,370 --> 00:00:13,769 the decline of the civil liberties 3 00:00:13,770 --> 00:00:16,019 in France and really the very sad 4 00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:17,999 and dramatic year that France has 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,369 experienced from the start 6 00:00:20,370 --> 00:00:22,679 of the year in 2015 with the attacks 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:23,680 on Charlie Hebdo. 8 00:00:24,690 --> 00:00:27,269 So the recent attacks in Paris 9 00:00:27,270 --> 00:00:29,429 this November, all of that as 10 00:00:29,430 --> 00:00:30,689 tragic as it is. 11 00:00:30,690 --> 00:00:33,659 But sadly, this is also had the effect 12 00:00:33,660 --> 00:00:35,879 of increasing push by the French 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,739 government to put legal frameworks in 14 00:00:37,740 --> 00:00:39,929 place to not really make things easier 15 00:00:39,930 --> 00:00:41,669 or better for citizens, but for the 16 00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:43,349 secret services in France. 17 00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:45,899 And that is what the two speakers 18 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:47,759 in this talk will be addressing right 19 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,949 now, as well as attempts of 20 00:00:49,950 --> 00:00:52,169 French NGOs to push against this 21 00:00:52,170 --> 00:00:53,549 kind of legislation. 22 00:00:53,550 --> 00:00:55,289 So I'd like you to give a really, really 23 00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:57,539 big, warm and respectful welcome 24 00:00:57,540 --> 00:00:59,729 to our next two speakers, Tazi Denn, 25 00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:01,949 who is the co-founder of a nonprofit ISP 26 00:01:01,950 --> 00:01:03,899 in France and also the member of a 27 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,179 federation of nonprofit ISPs, 28 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:08,489 and Adriano al-Shami, who's the campaign 29 00:01:08,490 --> 00:01:10,619 coordinator at La Guardia, to 30 00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:12,149 do net. Applause, please. 31 00:01:22,810 --> 00:01:23,859 Hello, everyone. 32 00:01:23,860 --> 00:01:26,049 Um, so I 33 00:01:26,050 --> 00:01:27,939 have to warn you, I have to do a little 34 00:01:27,940 --> 00:01:29,619 disclaimer, this talk would be very 35 00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:30,549 depressing. 36 00:01:30,550 --> 00:01:32,739 So keep calm, please keep 37 00:01:32,740 --> 00:01:34,269 calm, hug your neighbor. 38 00:01:34,270 --> 00:01:36,369 Everything will be OK and let 39 00:01:36,370 --> 00:01:38,199 go. So we want you to give this talk, 40 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,269 because as you have seen a lot 41 00:01:40,270 --> 00:01:42,399 of things as happened in France all this 42 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:43,539 year and Geraldine said it. 43 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:45,609 And so we wanted to share this with you 44 00:01:45,610 --> 00:01:47,349 and to give you an insight on what's 45 00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:49,459 going on. So, yeah, 46 00:01:49,460 --> 00:01:51,579 let's start with 47 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:54,519 2015 in a nutshell. 48 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,649 Yes, 2015 was a very 49 00:01:56,650 --> 00:01:58,959 black here in France for freedom 50 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,299 and not bioterrorism, attacks on security 51 00:02:01,300 --> 00:02:03,309 and the misery of voting, a permanent 52 00:02:03,310 --> 00:02:05,199 atmosphere of terror. 53 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,119 It began with the terrorist attacks in 54 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,189 January, followed by the intelligence 55 00:02:09,190 --> 00:02:11,469 law in March, then by an international 56 00:02:11,470 --> 00:02:13,839 surveillance law in September, 57 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,249 then by November attacks. 58 00:02:15,250 --> 00:02:17,349 And that was a state of emergency and new 59 00:02:17,350 --> 00:02:18,610 threats about liberties. 60 00:02:20,530 --> 00:02:22,629 Yeah, so the thing 61 00:02:22,630 --> 00:02:24,759 is, it's not just 2015, it 62 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,039 started a while back, 63 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,649 and since 2013 64 00:02:29,650 --> 00:02:32,109 actually there have been several measures 65 00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:34,209 and laws put in place and 66 00:02:34,210 --> 00:02:36,279 one of the first is the Military Planning 67 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:37,209 Act. 68 00:02:37,210 --> 00:02:39,399 So it was kind of the first 69 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,499 reaction to the post, to the Snowden 70 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:42,879 revelations in France. 71 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,129 Uh, and, um, so 72 00:02:45,130 --> 00:02:47,409 this is general 73 00:02:47,410 --> 00:02:49,359 low on military planning included a 74 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,209 measure about giving 75 00:02:52,210 --> 00:02:54,399 an unrestricted access for the police 76 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,559 to the ISP networks, 77 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,599 giving them access to metadata in real 78 00:02:58,600 --> 00:02:59,449 time. 79 00:02:59,450 --> 00:03:01,629 Yes. And this measure was 80 00:03:01,630 --> 00:03:03,819 voted to protect fundamental 81 00:03:03,820 --> 00:03:05,829 interest of France against economic 82 00:03:05,830 --> 00:03:07,329 espionage and terrorism. 83 00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:09,459 And as far as the beginning of 84 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:11,769 the of the problem, then 85 00:03:11,770 --> 00:03:14,019 in 2014, 86 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:16,869 we had a new law about terrorism, 87 00:03:16,870 --> 00:03:19,449 uh, voted in the emergency 88 00:03:19,450 --> 00:03:21,549 process because your apartment 89 00:03:21,550 --> 00:03:24,039 is a new way of democracy in France 90 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,019 when you talk about terrorism. 91 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:28,149 And there were several, Mizoram, 92 00:03:28,150 --> 00:03:30,369 mostly inefficient to prevent people 93 00:03:30,370 --> 00:03:31,869 from becoming terrorists. 94 00:03:31,870 --> 00:03:33,939 And one of them was the birth of 95 00:03:33,940 --> 00:03:36,039 a provision to allow police 96 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,679 to block websites for apologia 97 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,489 and glorification of terrorism. 98 00:03:40,490 --> 00:03:42,819 A very, uh, strange, 99 00:03:42,820 --> 00:03:44,049 uh, formulation. 100 00:03:44,050 --> 00:03:46,449 And police can directly ask 101 00:03:46,450 --> 00:03:49,209 the ISP to block by DNS 102 00:03:49,210 --> 00:03:50,709 access to websites. 103 00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:52,999 And of course, it is with 104 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,969 the no control by judge. 105 00:03:54,970 --> 00:03:57,279 The list of blocked websites remain 106 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,679 secret. And, uh, you have no information 107 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,779 to citizens and to the owners of the 108 00:04:01,780 --> 00:04:02,379 websites. 109 00:04:02,380 --> 00:04:04,509 Yeah, and that's not all for 110 00:04:04,510 --> 00:04:06,549 this law. Also, glorification of 111 00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:08,679 terrorism was removed from the the 112 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,779 only low framing freedom of speech in 113 00:04:10,780 --> 00:04:11,979 France to the. 114 00:04:11,980 --> 00:04:13,959 And so it was put in through the penal 115 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,179 code. Um, and 116 00:04:16,180 --> 00:04:18,639 to the effect of this is that is is 117 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,309 that glorifying terrorism 118 00:04:21,310 --> 00:04:23,679 is now just like an act of terrorism 119 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,749 itself, like it's ruled by the same 120 00:04:25,750 --> 00:04:27,199 judges and so on. 121 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,479 Um, and also the sanctions, 122 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,569 uh, if this glorification 123 00:04:31,570 --> 00:04:33,189 is made using the Internet, are 124 00:04:33,190 --> 00:04:34,239 increased. 125 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,789 And after Charlie attacks in January 126 00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:39,099 this year, many people will judge for 127 00:04:39,100 --> 00:04:40,689 glorification of terrorism. 128 00:04:40,690 --> 00:04:42,819 And a lot of them were drunk people 129 00:04:42,820 --> 00:04:44,079 or very young people. 130 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,389 And it shows the program to define 131 00:04:46,390 --> 00:04:48,459 exactly what is glorification of 132 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:49,899 terrorism. 133 00:04:49,900 --> 00:04:52,029 So that was for 2014. 134 00:04:52,030 --> 00:04:54,339 And then came 2015. 135 00:04:54,340 --> 00:04:55,839 And the intelligence flow, 136 00:04:57,070 --> 00:04:59,199 it was a low prepared since two 137 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,249 years approximately. 138 00:05:00,250 --> 00:05:02,769 And the January attacks 139 00:05:02,770 --> 00:05:04,779 offer the window open the window for the 140 00:05:04,780 --> 00:05:06,849 government to to push the law. 141 00:05:06,850 --> 00:05:08,350 Uh, and 142 00:05:09,430 --> 00:05:10,899 and during two months between the 143 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:12,789 Sharia's attacks in January and the 144 00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:14,410 presentation of the law in March, 145 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,009 it will it was an intense debate in 146 00:05:18,010 --> 00:05:20,199 France about must we have our 147 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,939 French Patriot Act or not? 148 00:05:21,940 --> 00:05:24,549 And the Internet was always presented 149 00:05:24,550 --> 00:05:27,369 as responsible for radicalization 150 00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:28,509 and terrorism. 151 00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:30,759 And encryption was targeted in France 152 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,159 and in other countries like the 153 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,379 United Kingdom, for example, 154 00:05:35,380 --> 00:05:37,599 even even if nothing proved that 155 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,239 encryption was used by terrorists, 156 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,429 and even the news cartoonist 157 00:05:42,430 --> 00:05:43,989 of the famous cartoonist from Charlie 158 00:05:43,990 --> 00:05:46,179 Hebdo was not a fool about all this. 159 00:05:46,180 --> 00:05:48,549 And you make this wonderful cartoon 160 00:05:48,550 --> 00:05:50,349 about the situation. 161 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:52,509 And I think it's very, uh, it speaks 162 00:05:52,510 --> 00:05:53,510 by itself. 163 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,649 So what were the arguments 164 00:05:56,650 --> 00:05:57,279 for the low? 165 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,709 Yes, you are the government's 166 00:05:59,710 --> 00:06:01,959 arguments and the reality and 167 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,119 the first arguments why that 168 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,639 the objective of the law is to create 169 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,679 a legal framework for intelligence 170 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,929 services. But in fact, France 171 00:06:10,930 --> 00:06:12,999 was under the threat to be condemned by 172 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,919 the European Court of Human Rights. 173 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,989 So it was very, um, 174 00:06:16,990 --> 00:06:18,939 uh, complicated for the government. 175 00:06:18,940 --> 00:06:21,189 Yeah. And then also, uh, 176 00:06:21,190 --> 00:06:22,799 one argument of the government was 177 00:06:24,190 --> 00:06:26,229 we needed to replace the only law on the 178 00:06:26,230 --> 00:06:28,419 matter on surveillance dating back 179 00:06:28,420 --> 00:06:30,889 to 1990, 1991. 180 00:06:30,890 --> 00:06:33,489 But in fact, it was only a 181 00:06:33,490 --> 00:06:35,619 question of extending the surveillance 182 00:06:35,620 --> 00:06:37,269 to Internet and mobile communication, 183 00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:39,459 which was not previously 184 00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:42,519 in the in the law, and said arguments 185 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,529 well that the government wanted to 186 00:06:44,530 --> 00:06:46,879 legalize existing practice and 187 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,059 needs of the service, which were in a 188 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:51,129 gray zone, they call it 189 00:06:51,130 --> 00:06:53,809 a legal practice is not, 190 00:06:53,810 --> 00:06:56,049 um, not a black, not 191 00:06:56,050 --> 00:06:57,099 white, but a gray zone. 192 00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:59,169 But it was just illegal 193 00:06:59,170 --> 00:07:01,569 practices and used probably since many 194 00:07:01,570 --> 00:07:02,800 years back, the services. 195 00:07:04,210 --> 00:07:06,639 One of the arguments was that, well, 196 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,259 you see, this law is bringing an 197 00:07:08,260 --> 00:07:10,359 independent control on the on the 198 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:11,649 surveillance activities and the 199 00:07:11,650 --> 00:07:14,469 intelligence activities, but in fact, 200 00:07:14,470 --> 00:07:16,539 that was the real controversy still 201 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:18,069 on the power in the hands of the prime 202 00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:20,179 minister and the 203 00:07:20,180 --> 00:07:20,769 the mission. 204 00:07:20,770 --> 00:07:22,239 But the commission, that's just a 205 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,379 consultative advice. 206 00:07:23,380 --> 00:07:24,380 Yeah. 207 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,839 And so one of the arguments 208 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,929 was that, you see, it's giving 209 00:07:29,930 --> 00:07:31,369 the citizen a way to challenge the 210 00:07:31,370 --> 00:07:33,559 surveillance now that it's framed 211 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,819 and so on. 212 00:07:34,820 --> 00:07:37,189 But actually, yes, 213 00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:39,439 in fact, defense secretary can be opposed 214 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,509 at each step of the citizen 215 00:07:41,510 --> 00:07:44,179 challenge and the process is not undone 216 00:07:44,180 --> 00:07:45,769 in the judiciary court. 217 00:07:45,770 --> 00:07:48,049 So you cannot 218 00:07:48,050 --> 00:07:48,859 challenge the state. 219 00:07:48,860 --> 00:07:51,019 So here for the arguments 220 00:07:51,020 --> 00:07:53,269 that we heard during the debate. 221 00:07:53,270 --> 00:07:54,739 But what is the scope of this 222 00:07:54,740 --> 00:07:56,719 intelligence law? That's something very 223 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,879 interesting because obviously 224 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,099 its scope for the 225 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:03,199 way it was sold in 226 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,419 the in the media as something targeted in 227 00:08:05,420 --> 00:08:07,379 targeting terrorism. 228 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:09,559 But actually there are all sorts 229 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,079 of categories of people 230 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,879 or actions that are concerned by the law, 231 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,159 like collective violence likely 232 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,719 to seriously harm public peace. 233 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,119 That's something very broad and very, 234 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,909 uh, uh, 235 00:08:22,910 --> 00:08:23,509 vague. 236 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:25,969 Uh, and so there are also, uh, 237 00:08:25,970 --> 00:08:28,279 economic and and scientific strategic 238 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,409 interests of France and, uh, 239 00:08:30,410 --> 00:08:32,749 international commitments and, uh, 240 00:08:32,750 --> 00:08:35,209 basically everything and everyone 241 00:08:35,210 --> 00:08:36,199 is concerned. 242 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,329 And, for example, protests against 243 00:08:38,330 --> 00:08:40,699 nuclear power can even fit 244 00:08:40,700 --> 00:08:42,619 in several of these categories. 245 00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:45,109 And the law, uh, legalize offensive 246 00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:47,449 and defensive, uh, espionage. 247 00:08:47,450 --> 00:08:49,039 Yeah. And we don't have the time to cover 248 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,529 all this. And there is also immunity 249 00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:53,749 for the intelligence services 250 00:08:53,750 --> 00:08:54,829 or in the law. 251 00:08:54,830 --> 00:08:57,199 Uh, but let's see some of the measures, 252 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,119 uh, the concrete measures that are 253 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,259 included in it. 254 00:09:00,260 --> 00:09:02,329 So obviously there is targeted 255 00:09:02,330 --> 00:09:04,609 surveillance like KG's democratization, 256 00:09:04,610 --> 00:09:06,769 microphone cameras are included in 257 00:09:06,770 --> 00:09:08,569 the law, are allowed by the law. 258 00:09:08,570 --> 00:09:10,919 Uh, there are also in Sketchers. 259 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,159 Uh, and one 260 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,439 of the thing that crystallized the debate 261 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,539 was black boxes that were to 262 00:09:17,540 --> 00:09:19,669 be put into ISP networks, 263 00:09:19,670 --> 00:09:22,309 hosting providers and access providers, 264 00:09:22,310 --> 00:09:24,589 uh, so that, uh, these black boxes 265 00:09:24,590 --> 00:09:27,199 can detect weak signals 266 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,139 and algorithmically 267 00:09:30,140 --> 00:09:32,539 and, uh, 268 00:09:32,540 --> 00:09:32,929 yes. 269 00:09:32,930 --> 00:09:35,059 So they put it into the law 270 00:09:35,060 --> 00:09:37,189 in France and in the 271 00:09:37,190 --> 00:09:38,179 into the law. 272 00:09:38,180 --> 00:09:39,229 That's crazy. 273 00:09:39,230 --> 00:09:41,569 So obviously we are 274 00:09:41,570 --> 00:09:42,769 against the law. 275 00:09:42,770 --> 00:09:45,289 Yeah. We were not very happy with 276 00:09:45,290 --> 00:09:46,999 that. The campaign against the 277 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,859 surveillance law immediately and 278 00:09:48,860 --> 00:09:51,109 coordinate a large coalition of 279 00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:53,689 opponents. And our slogan was 280 00:09:53,690 --> 00:09:55,639 everyone can be under surveillance and 281 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,929 was detained on a community website. 282 00:09:57,930 --> 00:10:00,319 Uh, you are here. 283 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,539 So surveillance that if it means 284 00:10:02,540 --> 00:10:04,219 under surveillance, that, uh, that 285 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:05,220 effort. 286 00:10:05,870 --> 00:10:08,269 So the mobilization was really broad. 287 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:10,849 And it it came up very fast 288 00:10:10,850 --> 00:10:12,979 with not just activists, but also 289 00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:15,319 NGOs, lawyers, judges, journalists, 290 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,749 trade unions, digital economy also. 291 00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:19,639 Um, and we. 292 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,059 Yes. And we started with 293 00:10:22,060 --> 00:10:23,899 by your press conference and like whether 294 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:25,999 your office and it was not 295 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,159 by the newspaper at the at the beginning 296 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,959 of opponent's campaign. 297 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,089 And we were surprised to be 298 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:34,159 at the at the center of the, uh, 299 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:35,089 coalition. 300 00:10:35,090 --> 00:10:37,339 But I think we are used 301 00:10:37,340 --> 00:10:39,829 to be faster than all the NGOs because 302 00:10:39,830 --> 00:10:41,989 we we know how to mobilize to 303 00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:44,269 to analyze and to campaign and 304 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:46,369 that give us more experience, that 305 00:10:46,370 --> 00:10:47,809 Internet ways to organize. 306 00:10:48,830 --> 00:10:50,569 Yeah. So the organization, although 307 00:10:50,570 --> 00:10:52,489 they're not organized in the opposition, 308 00:10:52,490 --> 00:10:54,859 uh, group, uh, all around the debate 309 00:10:54,860 --> 00:10:56,989 at first, at the very beginning, very few 310 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:58,759 MPs were against the law. 311 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,829 It was really something that was going 312 00:11:00,830 --> 00:11:03,229 to pass. It was a it was a lost battle, 313 00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:05,449 um, but, uh, a very 314 00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:08,199 large citizen mobilization, uh, 315 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,739 has been organized through, uh, Alkira 316 00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:11,959 like with our traditional tools. 317 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,329 Yes. We use them, for example, 318 00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:16,579 the phone with, uh, which is 319 00:11:16,580 --> 00:11:18,919 a website to facilitate calls 320 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,629 to members of parliament. 321 00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:22,609 The only thing you need is a phone 322 00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:25,099 number. And we just have five 323 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:27,169 weeks to convince 324 00:11:27,170 --> 00:11:29,339 MPs that it was a very, 325 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:31,279 very good campaign. 326 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,749 But at the day it was a vote in the 327 00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:34,879 National Assembly, 20 percent 328 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,979 of MPs vote against the law. 329 00:11:36,980 --> 00:11:39,259 And for us, it was it was very, 330 00:11:39,260 --> 00:11:41,539 um, it was like 331 00:11:41,540 --> 00:11:42,620 a little victory 332 00:11:43,970 --> 00:11:44,970 and. 333 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,969 And three weeks later, we 334 00:11:50,970 --> 00:11:53,189 have the same progress in the Senate 335 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:55,439 with at the beginning, 336 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,509 nobody, nobody is against 337 00:11:57,510 --> 00:11:59,579 the law and at the end, 20 338 00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:01,769 percent of the senators against the law. 339 00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:03,929 And during all of the campaign, 340 00:12:03,930 --> 00:12:06,089 we provided legal amendments 341 00:12:06,090 --> 00:12:07,649 and explanation to the member of 342 00:12:07,650 --> 00:12:09,809 parliament. We explained again 343 00:12:09,810 --> 00:12:11,909 and again the law to politician, to 344 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:14,429 the media in order to change the public 345 00:12:14,430 --> 00:12:16,619 and political view and the law. 346 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:17,690 And it worked 347 00:12:18,810 --> 00:12:20,909 because despite the 348 00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:22,979 bad result, we are proud 349 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:25,169 to have forced the government to justify 350 00:12:25,170 --> 00:12:27,569 itself every time about freedom. 351 00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:29,759 And now the law was 352 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,319 called the intelligence law at the 353 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,509 beginning in media and 354 00:12:33,510 --> 00:12:35,339 at the end was called the surveillance 355 00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:37,559 law. And for us, it was very important 356 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:38,789 to change the world. 357 00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:40,139 Yeah. 358 00:12:40,140 --> 00:12:42,659 So this is not all. 359 00:12:42,660 --> 00:12:45,389 We decided to also take the legal 360 00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:45,809 fight. 361 00:12:45,810 --> 00:12:47,519 And so we 362 00:12:48,540 --> 00:12:50,819 there was a small group of people, 363 00:12:50,820 --> 00:12:52,919 um, we decided to 364 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,019 write a, um, an amicus 365 00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:57,239 curiae. It's a document that 366 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,549 you can provide that you can contribute 367 00:12:59,550 --> 00:13:01,599 to a judiciary debate. 368 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,959 And so one hundred and twenty two pages 369 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,089 were written describing what 370 00:13:06,090 --> 00:13:08,459 was wrong in the law, uh, 371 00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:10,739 comparing with the European commitments 372 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:12,389 of France and the European Court of 373 00:13:12,390 --> 00:13:14,579 Justice case law and to us to 374 00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:16,739 to sustain the appeal launched 375 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:18,989 by 60 members of the parliament to 376 00:13:18,990 --> 00:13:21,569 to go before the Constitutional 377 00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:23,699 Council to asking the law to be 378 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:24,689 censored. 379 00:13:24,690 --> 00:13:26,729 And that's something like this. 380 00:13:26,730 --> 00:13:28,859 You can read it on our website. 381 00:13:28,860 --> 00:13:31,109 Yeah. And so this was written 382 00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:33,539 not just by lawyers, but also 383 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:35,519 with a team of lawyers and activists. 384 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:36,659 That is very interesting. 385 00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:38,849 And we put it online so that people 386 00:13:38,850 --> 00:13:41,129 can review it and every people 387 00:13:41,130 --> 00:13:43,319 can review it and and give 388 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,479 us feedback and comments and fixes. 389 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,879 And so it worked very well, 390 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,079 very, very well. We had 500, 391 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,649 uh, modifications in 24 392 00:13:52,650 --> 00:13:54,899 hours. We were like the first 393 00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:56,889 surprise to have so many comments. 394 00:13:56,890 --> 00:13:59,039 And so this is a proof that 395 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,719 lawyers can work together and do pretty 396 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:01,720 cool stuff. 397 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,249 Angela, is the constitutional council 398 00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:07,679 validated the law except 399 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,139 one small part of its small part, 400 00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:12,029 all of the provision about international 401 00:14:12,030 --> 00:14:13,499 surveillance. 402 00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:15,119 It's not to say that international 403 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,039 surveillance is prohibited, of course, 404 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,229 just to follow the parliament, to vote 405 00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:21,299 explicitly as a measure and not 406 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,519 just vote for future secret 407 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,319 decree to organize international 408 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:26,639 surveillance. 409 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,649 So the law was reintroduced before the 410 00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:30,329 parliament in September. 411 00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:32,399 Yeah, it's it has been 412 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,049 a nightmare like like with everything 413 00:14:34,050 --> 00:14:35,369 that was alone on this. 414 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:36,429 Yes. 415 00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:38,639 Not to mention the 416 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,409 most. And was in France. 417 00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:42,509 It was two firsts, only three weeks to 418 00:14:42,510 --> 00:14:44,879 two campaign. So we were all alone 419 00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:47,999 and the law 420 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,369 legalized surveillance and all traffic 421 00:14:50,370 --> 00:14:53,129 going in and out of France. 422 00:14:53,130 --> 00:14:55,679 This is obviously mass surveillance 423 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,269 and has been clearly stated 424 00:14:58,270 --> 00:14:59,699 as such. 425 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:02,009 And it's written in the law, not 426 00:15:02,010 --> 00:15:03,109 targeted surveillance. 427 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:05,369 So it's the mass surveillance was 428 00:15:05,370 --> 00:15:07,649 vetted and the law state 429 00:15:07,650 --> 00:15:09,989 that authorization to spy 430 00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:12,509 even for entire countries, 431 00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:14,789 for companies or for 432 00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:16,259 geographical zone. 433 00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:18,479 So without any 434 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,539 prior control and there always 435 00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:24,209 has been voted in three weeks without 436 00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:26,759 any serious debate presented 437 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,919 just at the patch to the intelligence 438 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,239 law. Yeah, yeah. 439 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,059 I would say traffic going 440 00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:34,049 in and out of France. 441 00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:36,209 It's nothing like, well, this 442 00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:38,339 is a map of cable cables 443 00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:40,769 going in and out 444 00:15:40,770 --> 00:15:42,549 of France. So this is pretty scary. 445 00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:46,859 So at this very moment, uh, 446 00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:48,999 we were like, OK, the battle is lost at 447 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,369 the end of October. 448 00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:51,779 Yeah, end of October. 449 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:53,849 But we were like, OK, now it's 450 00:15:53,850 --> 00:15:54,779 kind of a.. 451 00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:56,909 Well, we have to we have 452 00:15:56,910 --> 00:15:59,039 still a world changer at the 453 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,749 end of a very hard period. 454 00:16:00,750 --> 00:16:03,269 And we would continue our positive 455 00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:05,579 agenda and campaign for 456 00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:07,709 rights and freedom on the Internet. 457 00:16:07,710 --> 00:16:09,329 Net neutrality, data protection, 458 00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:11,609 copyright reform, some very positive 459 00:16:11,610 --> 00:16:12,809 things. 460 00:16:12,810 --> 00:16:15,119 And then and then came the 461 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:17,260 attacks. 462 00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:21,149 And immediately after the attacks, 463 00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:23,339 the attacks took place at a Friday 464 00:16:23,340 --> 00:16:24,689 evening at 10:00 p.m. 465 00:16:24,690 --> 00:16:26,759 and at 11:00 PM, the 466 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,409 French president declared a state of 467 00:16:28,410 --> 00:16:29,579 emergency. 468 00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:31,649 Uh, and the day 469 00:16:31,650 --> 00:16:33,779 after the prime minister declared that 470 00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:36,149 a law will be voted the next 471 00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:38,879 week to extend the state of emergency 472 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,609 in its perimeter and duration 473 00:16:41,610 --> 00:16:43,349 for three months. 474 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:45,749 And the law was voted with only six 475 00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:47,339 votes against. 476 00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:49,859 And there are very massive pressure 477 00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:52,139 of the prime minister and the minister of 478 00:16:52,140 --> 00:16:53,159 interior affairs. 479 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,689 So let's see what is the state of 480 00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:57,089 emergency? You have to see that it's 481 00:16:57,090 --> 00:16:59,159 a suspension of separation of powers. 482 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,739 It's something very exceptional 483 00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:03,869 and it allows the police 484 00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:06,328 to do searches 24/7 485 00:17:06,329 --> 00:17:08,189 without any judiciary control. 486 00:17:08,190 --> 00:17:10,499 Uh, there are also also 487 00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:12,689 arrests. Um, people can 488 00:17:12,690 --> 00:17:14,639 be forced to stay at home twelve hours 489 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,009 per day and not quite a 490 00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:18,209 specific area. 491 00:17:18,210 --> 00:17:20,729 And also, um, websites 492 00:17:20,730 --> 00:17:21,358 can be. 493 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,409 Yes. 494 00:17:22,410 --> 00:17:24,318 In the vision of a new provisional. 495 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,429 Yes. New provision, uh, adopted, 496 00:17:27,450 --> 00:17:29,009 uh, last month. 497 00:17:29,010 --> 00:17:31,289 The, uh, electronic search is allowed 498 00:17:31,290 --> 00:17:33,419 into any system accessible 499 00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:35,759 during a police search, any, uh, 500 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,019 which means that if the police come at 501 00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:40,079 your place and see that you can access 502 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,029 from your computer other computers, you 503 00:17:42,030 --> 00:17:44,309 can also copy the data of these 504 00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:45,329 servers. 505 00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:46,809 Most of all devices. 506 00:17:46,810 --> 00:17:48,539 Yes. And the websites can be blocked 507 00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:50,819 directly by an order by decision 508 00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:53,339 from the minister of interior affairs. 509 00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:56,519 And there are a provision 510 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,889 about dissolution of formal groups 511 00:17:58,890 --> 00:18:01,109 or organization without any 512 00:18:01,110 --> 00:18:03,659 judgment and forever, including 513 00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:06,089 after the end of the state of emergency. 514 00:18:06,090 --> 00:18:08,219 And all of this is not 515 00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:10,499 operate with a judge, advise 516 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:12,749 it just with the intelligence 517 00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:14,909 services information you have not to 518 00:18:14,910 --> 00:18:17,189 through to, uh, prove something 519 00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:19,529 before before, uh, 520 00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:21,669 Blocher website or make, 521 00:18:21,670 --> 00:18:23,819 uh, house arrest or police 522 00:18:23,820 --> 00:18:24,359 search. 523 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:26,549 Yeah. So let us give you some 524 00:18:26,550 --> 00:18:29,219 numbers of what happened. 525 00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:31,379 So until now, we have, uh, 526 00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:33,029 numbers given by the French National 527 00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:35,129 Assembly, some kind of reporting. 528 00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:37,349 Uh, and so far as of 529 00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:40,019 actually the December the 17th, 530 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:42,509 there have been more than 2700 531 00:18:42,510 --> 00:18:44,909 police searches, uh, three 532 00:18:44,910 --> 00:18:47,519 hundred and sixty eight house arrest 533 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,619 and no websites blocked. 534 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:50,640 But the 535 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,039 other that's interesting. 536 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:53,859 The main problem. 537 00:18:53,860 --> 00:18:55,619 Yeah, Internet was the main problem. 538 00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:58,019 So and, um, we 539 00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:00,179 decided to document the disaster, 540 00:19:00,180 --> 00:19:02,259 uh, on the on the. 541 00:19:02,260 --> 00:19:04,719 You we keep with the help of 542 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,909 people on the Internet and 543 00:19:06,910 --> 00:19:09,279 every day, every article 544 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,049 on a newspaper about the state of 545 00:19:11,050 --> 00:19:13,480 emergency is across 546 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:15,699 our region. 547 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:18,159 And for us, it's very important to 548 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,109 to grow the awareness of people and 549 00:19:20,110 --> 00:19:23,319 politicians before voting next Mazrui. 550 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,569 So at this moment, 551 00:19:25,570 --> 00:19:27,219 when we were documenting the disaster, we 552 00:19:27,220 --> 00:19:29,289 were realizing that the targets 553 00:19:29,290 --> 00:19:31,989 of these searches and also arrest 554 00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:34,929 were not all the time terrorists. 555 00:19:34,930 --> 00:19:37,179 Um, but there were like 556 00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:39,309 everybody that could cause danger to 557 00:19:39,310 --> 00:19:41,889 public peace, uh, would be considered 558 00:19:41,890 --> 00:19:43,839 dangerous by the police and the minister 559 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,069 of interior affairs. 560 00:19:45,070 --> 00:19:47,049 So there were Muslims, anarchists, 561 00:19:47,050 --> 00:19:48,759 climate conference activists. 562 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,369 And also there have been 563 00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:53,499 during the conference, uh, the 564 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:54,549 climate conference, there have been 565 00:19:54,550 --> 00:19:56,829 demonstration prohibited and 566 00:19:56,830 --> 00:19:58,959 people were also arrested. 567 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,239 So this was not just about 568 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,319 terrorism. 569 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,629 It was very broad and very 570 00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:07,089 far. And there is clearly a logic 571 00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:09,549 going on throughout all 572 00:20:09,550 --> 00:20:11,859 the laws we have been discussing since 573 00:20:11,860 --> 00:20:13,179 the beginning of this talk. 574 00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:15,429 And it's clearly a Menary minority 575 00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:17,919 report, uh, 576 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,139 kind of a way of thinking like 577 00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:22,029 they want to prevent the crime before 578 00:20:22,030 --> 00:20:23,889 they happen. And so there they are 579 00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:25,809 willing to do whatever they want to avoid 580 00:20:25,810 --> 00:20:27,939 justice and to do people 581 00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:29,679 jianmin genuinely sort of way through the 582 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,959 police and and so on. 583 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,279 And what's next? 584 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,709 We we are afraid to be 585 00:20:35,710 --> 00:20:37,859 targeting in the next day or 586 00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:40,239 a month, for example, when 587 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,159 the provision about association and 588 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,259 organization targets, facilitation 589 00:20:44,260 --> 00:20:46,869 or encouragement and committing dangerous 590 00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:47,870 acts. 591 00:20:48,610 --> 00:20:50,799 And we ask ourselves, 592 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,859 um, providing a 593 00:20:52,860 --> 00:20:55,269 did not promote encryption, 594 00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:57,429 is it encouraging, 595 00:20:57,430 --> 00:21:00,689 facilitating or facilitating? 596 00:21:00,690 --> 00:21:01,689 So we don't know. 597 00:21:01,690 --> 00:21:03,819 And that is a part 598 00:21:03,820 --> 00:21:04,989 of the problem. 599 00:21:04,990 --> 00:21:07,000 When the police can 600 00:21:08,650 --> 00:21:12,069 decide for the the society 601 00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:14,379 who is dangerous or not, 602 00:21:14,380 --> 00:21:16,479 you don't have as a rule, you cannot, 603 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,669 uh, know if you are targeted 604 00:21:18,670 --> 00:21:19,299 or not. 605 00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:21,639 Yeah. And so this is pretty bad, but 606 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:22,959 that's not enough. 607 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,949 That's not finished. 608 00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:26,169 There is a constitutional reform that 609 00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:28,059 has been announced a few days ago. 610 00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:29,889 It was announced since the attacks, but 611 00:21:29,890 --> 00:21:31,389 the details were published a few days 612 00:21:31,390 --> 00:21:33,609 ago. And what has been announced 613 00:21:33,610 --> 00:21:34,869 is mainly two things. 614 00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:36,999 Uh, the first is that the state 615 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,889 of emergency will be written directly 616 00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:41,109 into the Constitution if it's it's very 617 00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:43,179 important to be not attacked 618 00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:44,589 by a judgment later. 619 00:21:44,590 --> 00:21:47,079 Yeah. So it's kind of protected. 620 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,449 And also it's 621 00:21:49,450 --> 00:21:51,009 starting and that's starting now in 622 00:21:51,010 --> 00:21:53,559 France, that there is a huge debate over 623 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,209 the second measure, which is the 624 00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:57,069 provision of nationality, which should 625 00:21:57,070 --> 00:21:59,259 be, uh, uh, major change 626 00:21:59,260 --> 00:22:00,369 of policy in France. 627 00:22:00,370 --> 00:22:02,589 And it's, uh, an idea coming from the far 628 00:22:02,590 --> 00:22:03,579 right. 629 00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:05,739 Uh, and so this is 630 00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:07,619 sparking a debate right now. 631 00:22:07,620 --> 00:22:07,719 And. 632 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,099 Yes, and the debate 633 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:12,459 takes place under the threat of 634 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:14,649 new terrorist attacks 635 00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:16,659 used by the government to force the 636 00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:19,299 parliament into putting the reform. 637 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:21,459 And probably the the 638 00:22:21,460 --> 00:22:23,289 constitutional reform will be brought 639 00:22:23,290 --> 00:22:25,869 under the state of emergency. 640 00:22:25,870 --> 00:22:28,479 And two new bills have been announced 641 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,969 for a few days ago about, again, 642 00:22:30,970 --> 00:22:33,249 terrorism and organized 643 00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:35,559 crime. And that will probably 644 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,529 be discussed in January or February. 645 00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:40,689 And we foresee new attacks 646 00:22:40,690 --> 00:22:43,069 on encryption, privacy, citizen 647 00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:45,129 rights, especially online, 648 00:22:45,130 --> 00:22:47,019 because politicians don't want to 649 00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:49,089 understand what what is 650 00:22:49,090 --> 00:22:50,139 privacy online. 651 00:22:50,140 --> 00:22:52,509 It's more easy for them to not 652 00:22:52,510 --> 00:22:54,999 know what the what it means. 653 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,499 So what is at stake? 654 00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:58,299 Clearly, what's going on there is the 655 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:00,699 shock doctrine implementing a permanent 656 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:02,769 state of exception in France. 657 00:23:02,770 --> 00:23:04,240 We are saying that. 658 00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:10,139 There is definitely some 659 00:23:10,140 --> 00:23:12,809 that the willing to avoid the judiciary 660 00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:15,149 powers that any will like to put 661 00:23:15,150 --> 00:23:16,919 more powers into the police and 662 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,119 intelligence services 663 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,389 and more and more pressure put on the 664 00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:21,809 Internet. 665 00:23:21,810 --> 00:23:24,179 It's like, yes, it's always presented 666 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:26,249 by the government as a propaganda 667 00:23:26,250 --> 00:23:28,019 tool for terrorists. 668 00:23:28,020 --> 00:23:30,449 And we think that counter 669 00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:32,579 terrorism seems to be 670 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:35,009 the new policy of the French government. 671 00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:37,319 And it's a symbol 672 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,389 of the general crisis of democracy in 673 00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:39,999 France. 674 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,000 Yeah, we think 675 00:23:42,060 --> 00:23:42,509 so. 676 00:23:42,510 --> 00:23:44,849 We have to adapt and to 677 00:23:44,850 --> 00:23:46,829 find the counterstrategy. 678 00:23:46,830 --> 00:23:48,299 At first, you have to acknowledge that 679 00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:49,829 digital freedom is a lie. 680 00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:51,119 There is just freedom, 681 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:53,680 plain and simple. 682 00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:02,019 You need to refuse the shock doctrine, 683 00:24:02,020 --> 00:24:04,259 stay alert and protect yourself, help 684 00:24:04,260 --> 00:24:06,299 people to understand the situation, gives 685 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:08,489 them tools to to protect themselves 686 00:24:08,490 --> 00:24:10,849 against surveillance and bad policy. 687 00:24:10,850 --> 00:24:13,589 Um, and you have to anticipate 688 00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:15,749 the threat and be careful about the 689 00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:18,299 disclosure of future governments. 690 00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:20,369 And for us, since the 691 00:24:20,370 --> 00:24:23,099 beginning of this year, it means, 692 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:25,769 unlike what I do, other NGOs, 693 00:24:25,770 --> 00:24:28,019 systematic public campaign, even 694 00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:29,759 if we know that we will lose because it's 695 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,879 very important to document the facts. 696 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,069 It requires building our story, 697 00:24:35,070 --> 00:24:37,079 telling about the 698 00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:39,630 events and not just 699 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,169 of the government storytelling 700 00:24:43,170 --> 00:24:45,299 to prepare and conduct 701 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:47,699 legal action every time and everywhere 702 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:49,799 before the French justice and 703 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,289 the European justice. 704 00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:54,479 It also means that something very 705 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,519 important that we must document the 706 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,439 disaster that we read. 707 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,539 We assume that document 708 00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:02,639 a disaster like we did with the 709 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:03,629 wiki page. 710 00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:06,089 And more than anything, 711 00:25:06,090 --> 00:25:08,219 it means taking part and building 712 00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:11,069 coalitions with groups and organizations 713 00:25:11,070 --> 00:25:13,409 that we are not used to work with 714 00:25:13,410 --> 00:25:15,719 because we must enlarge the basis 715 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,579 of the opposition. 716 00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:19,379 Well, not alone. It's not just a digital 717 00:25:19,380 --> 00:25:21,479 thing. It's we are all concerned. 718 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,939 So one very 719 00:25:23,940 --> 00:25:26,309 last important thing is we 720 00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:28,649 spoke about France, but it can 721 00:25:28,650 --> 00:25:30,809 be in your country very soon, I 722 00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:32,789 don't hope. But you should stay alert. 723 00:25:32,790 --> 00:25:34,859 As I said, even as we 724 00:25:34,860 --> 00:25:36,719 speak, there are countries like Tunisia 725 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,789 that are using what is going on 726 00:25:38,790 --> 00:25:41,249 in France to promote the same schemes, 727 00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:43,349 in the same shock doctrine and so 728 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:44,849 on. They are saying, hey, it's the 729 00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:45,899 country of human rights. 730 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:47,489 Why can't we do the same thing? 731 00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:48,419 And so. 732 00:25:48,420 --> 00:25:50,219 Well, I'm sorry, but even the country of 733 00:25:50,220 --> 00:25:51,839 human rights can turn into a police 734 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,769 state. 735 00:25:52,770 --> 00:25:54,989 So as a few words of advice 736 00:25:54,990 --> 00:25:56,969 to come, conclude this talk, stay safe, 737 00:25:56,970 --> 00:25:59,219 help others and encrypt all the things. 738 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:00,220 Thank you. 739 00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:15,559 Very much to the two of you, I'm going to 740 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,659 check my we have four 741 00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:19,519 minutes left, but I know that you're also 742 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,649 going to do an extended Q&A 743 00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:23,389 because there's not that much time now. 744 00:26:23,390 --> 00:26:24,979 Do you want to announce that quickly? 745 00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:26,209 Yes, we are. 746 00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:27,889 It was very short slots. 747 00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:30,019 30 minutes is very short to talk 748 00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:32,299 about all the details of what was shown. 749 00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:34,159 So we felt that it would be good to have, 750 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,319 uh, more, uh, 751 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,569 more time to to elaborate on that 752 00:26:38,570 --> 00:26:40,579 if you're interested. So please join us 753 00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:42,739 in the all eight one 754 00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:44,629 in 30 minutes. 755 00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:46,849 Uh, so we will discuss about 756 00:26:46,850 --> 00:26:49,009 going beyond the State Department with 757 00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:51,319 all of the other people from Leopardi 758 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,209 to the French. 759 00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:55,459 Yes, sure. And if you cannot come join 760 00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:57,829 us at the Charles, have some tea and 761 00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:58,830 you're welcome.