1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,858 *36c3 preroll music* 2 00:00:19,858 --> 00:00:25,099 Herald Angel: OK. So our next speakers are going to talk about the charges against 3 00:00:25,099 --> 00:00:32,140 Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, which is a topic that's very close to our hearts. I 4 00:00:32,140 --> 00:00:37,360 guess, most our hearts at least. And it's also something that's incredibly important 5 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:45,020 for us as a community and it's a threat against the entire tech community, 6 00:00:45,020 --> 00:00:53,820 minorities, human rights advocates, activists. So a lot of people you 7 00:00:53,820 --> 00:01:00,890 should really care about. And the speakers are Renata Avila, who's the executive 8 00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:09,865 director of Fundación Ciudadanía Inteligente. Yay! 9 00:01:09,865 --> 00:01:14,610 *applause* 10 00:01:14,610 --> 00:01:18,350 Renata Avila: Well done. Herald Angel: Naomi Colvin, who is the UK 11 00:01:18,350 --> 00:01:22,060 program director at Blueprint for Free Speech - which is much easier to 12 00:01:22,060 --> 00:01:30,420 pronounce, thank you so much - *supporting applause and speakers laughing* 13 00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:37,460 Herald Angel: And Angel Richter, who's a director and writer and artist and a lot 14 00:01:37,460 --> 00:01:47,240 of things, and she specializes on whistleblowing and digital dissidents, and 15 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:53,119 one of the plays, which is transmedia play. You might know, it's called Super 16 00:01:53,119 --> 00:02:01,029 Nerds. So a round of applause for our amazing speakers. And let's begin the talk. 17 00:02:01,029 --> 00:02:05,887 *applause and cheering* 18 00:02:05,887 --> 00:02:08,740 Angela Richter: Thank you very much. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for 19 00:02:08,740 --> 00:02:17,170 coming here tonight. And thank you also for our introduction by the moderator, a 20 00:02:17,170 --> 00:02:20,880 very charming guy, as I thought. And also good to give a little bit lightness to 21 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:29,720 this - for me very serious issue actually - that we are here. Like you said, I am 22 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:36,890 an artist. And for me, WikiLeaks was very important. And also Julian Assange, 23 00:02:36,890 --> 00:02:42,420 because somehow they were the entrance for me as an artist to this community that 24 00:02:42,420 --> 00:02:50,550 became very dear to me in the last 10 years. And I attended some of the 25 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:54,360 Congresses in the last 10 years and learned a lot about things that I never 26 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:00,160 knew before. So I owe a lot, actually, to WikiLeaks and also to this community, 27 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:06,340 because it opened so many things for me up. So, yeah, this I wanted to say first 28 00:03:06,340 --> 00:03:13,510 and then I will also show a little piece of a recent play I did in Zagreb. It's by 29 00:03:13,510 --> 00:03:18,570 Slavoj Žižek, who is also supported by Julian. And it is not so much... It is 30 00:03:18,570 --> 00:03:22,510 related to our topic. It's a little bit like a mood board that we want to show 31 00:03:22,510 --> 00:03:25,530 before we start. 32 00:03:25,530 --> 00:03:32,540 Richter: And like he said, this will be about how we can support WikiLeaks. And of 33 00:03:32,540 --> 00:03:36,330 course, Julian Assange, which is also a very personal matter for me, because he 34 00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:42,620 became a very close friend in the last 10 years who I also owe a lot. And on the 35 00:03:42,620 --> 00:03:46,680 other hand, I think it's not only about him and his life, which is serious enough, 36 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:51,870 but I think that this thing that is happening to him, that he's being charged 37 00:03:51,870 --> 00:03:56,660 with the Espionage Act - this is the first time that something like this happens to a 38 00:03:56,660 --> 00:04:03,450 publisher - is a threat to free speech to all of our freedom. And it means that 39 00:04:03,450 --> 00:04:09,330 actually everyone who speaks truth to power can be kidnapped, extradited to the 40 00:04:09,330 --> 00:04:16,859 US and then end up in prison for the rest of his life. And I think that this is - 41 00:04:16,859 --> 00:04:20,539 for this community also - a threat, especially because we all know that we are 42 00:04:20,539 --> 00:04:27,630 trying to be secure. Secure free speech is very important issue here. So, yeah. We 43 00:04:27,630 --> 00:04:35,774 will go into the details in the course of this week. Thank you very much. 44 00:04:35,774 --> 00:04:46,030 *video with soft, slow, but deep orchestra music* 45 00:06:23,130 --> 00:06:32,350 *music gets more, dramatic and continues* 46 00:06:43,627 --> 00:06:50,370 *voices of the speakers are not heard, music continues* 47 00:07:16,358 --> 00:07:28,120 *applause followed by short silence* 48 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,730 Renata Avila: We will try to be brief to leave enough time for questions, because 49 00:07:32,730 --> 00:07:38,729 we think that you have a lot of questions on this case and so we will alternate and 50 00:07:38,729 --> 00:07:44,680 discuss different issues, starting with: What are we at now? 51 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Richter: Yes. On the left side, you see Belmarsh Prison. This is the high security 52 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:57,670 prison that Julian is housed at the moment. And what I find very chilling 53 00:07:57,670 --> 00:08:03,380 about it,is that it's actually a place where usually you find terrorists, 54 00:08:03,380 --> 00:08:10,760 murderers and mafia people and so on. So, high criminals. And he is only at the 55 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:16,991 moment being held there for extradition reasons, which is also extreme, because he 56 00:08:16,991 --> 00:08:27,449 is 23 hours a day alone in his cell, which is actually isolation. And then the next 57 00:08:27,449 --> 00:08:35,110 picture shows a typical room in a prison in Virginia, where Chelsea Manning is held 58 00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:39,680 at the moment, again. And I think, it must be something like 10 months in the 59 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:46,339 meantime, that she is again in prison, because she is not willing to testify 60 00:08:46,339 --> 00:08:51,400 against Julian Assange in front of a grand jury. 61 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:59,820 Avila: So raise your hand if you have less than 30 years. So - 62 00:08:59,820 --> 00:09:03,570 Richter: OK. Thank you. Avila: - that says a lot, because it means 63 00:09:03,570 --> 00:09:09,480 that probably your first encounter with WikiLeaks was just only 5 years ago. And 64 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,649 you were a teen, when many things were happening. And we know that today is Young 65 00:09:13,649 --> 00:09:19,840 Hackers Day, so it was important for us to quickly go through the important 66 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:25,520 publications that WikiLeaks published in the last decade. Why? Because there are 67 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:32,550 many misconceptions since 2016 and a lot of misinformation followed the election of 68 00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:39,160 Donald Trump. And so we want to show here and it is, of course, not a detailed list. 69 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:45,700 You can find a detailed list on WikiLeaks, on Wikipedia - two concepts at the 70 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:51,960 beginning were all of them mixed, actually. And the same principles followed, 71 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,820 I would say. But what I want to show here is the most impactful publications by 72 00:09:57,820 --> 00:10:03,100 WikiLeaks, that changed the course of history in many places and also - 73 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:10,560 highlighted in green - their political persecution moments. Not only against 74 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:16,950 Julian Assange, but against other people that were closely connected to these 75 00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:22,610 developments in the last decade. So 2008 was a very exciting year for WikiLeaks 76 00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:28,540 because I think that - even if it was created before - was the year that it got 77 00:10:28,540 --> 00:10:33,500 mainstream. Why? Because it changed elections in Kenya by exposing 78 00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:39,660 extrajudicial killings. And it really changed the outcome of the election. Like 79 00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:43,660 people realized that one of the candidates was involved in these extrajudicial 80 00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:50,616 killings of young people. And that really impacted deeply the African nation. Not 81 00:10:50,616 --> 00:10:55,010 only that, you may have forgotten about that, but he was the first publication of 82 00:10:55,010 --> 00:11:02,870 the batch of emails from Sarah Palin. And also, there were lots of publications in 83 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:06,450 Latin America. That's how I became familiar with WikiLeaks and very excited 84 00:11:06,450 --> 00:11:13,200 about that. Petrol Gate, the biggest scandal of corruption in Peru. And so, 85 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:19,070 publications involving Guerillas and False Positives in the Colombian war. It has 86 00:11:19,070 --> 00:11:24,720 started, like, from the places from Africa, from Latin America and also the 87 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:32,730 US. On 2009, I will say that the highlight and why WikiLeaks became very busy, well, 88 00:11:32,730 --> 00:11:38,560 it exposed a lot of the censorship lists out of China and Iran and other countries. 89 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:45,970 The Internet was not what it used ... it is not what it is today. Censorship was 90 00:11:45,970 --> 00:11:51,100 tangible. You will see a blocked website. And now, as we will discuss later, now 91 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:57,660 it's a different form of censorship. And so WikiLeaks at the moment was the 92 00:11:57,660 --> 00:12:04,230 guardian of this free internet and also it was their big moment in Iceland. And the 93 00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:12,000 big opportunity for WikiLeaks as well. In a jurisdiction to become not only a 94 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,569 publisher, but a designer of a new ecosystem of freedom of information. So it 95 00:12:16,569 --> 00:12:21,900 exposed the corrupt involving the financial scandal there. And it got 96 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:26,440 really, really exciting there. Things, like the EME initiative and all the things 97 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:32,940 that are now part of our history. Then 2010 and then 2010 was the year when 98 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:38,230 things started to get really complicated. Why? Because instead of torching countries 99 00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:43,240 in the periphery or torching developing countries. So it's OK. It's always cool to 100 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:50,380 expose there by human rights violations of an African or Latin American person in 101 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:55,010 power. But when you torch the center of power, when you torch the most powerful 102 00:12:55,010 --> 00:13:01,509 military in the world, you get into trouble. So on 2010, Collateral Murder 103 00:13:01,509 --> 00:13:07,451 video was published, The Afghan War Diaries, Iraq War Logs and cable gate. And 104 00:13:07,451 --> 00:13:11,279 that was the moment when Julian Assange was arrested. It was not arrested because 105 00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:15,899 of the publications. It was just a few days after the publication started that he 106 00:13:15,899 --> 00:13:22,130 was arrested on behalf of Sweden. And no charges, it was not because of charges. It 107 00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:28,760 was because of ongoing investigation. 2011, the Gitmo files, spy files, the spy 108 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:35,320 files. The first batch of publication, 160 companies involved in mass surveillance, 109 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:41,459 private mass surveillance. That was Pre- Snowden, remember that. And that, at that 110 00:13:41,459 --> 00:13:46,870 moment Julian only spent a little in the same prison that he is now, only a few days. 111 00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:52,420 Then he was released on bail. But from that moment, from the moment that he put, 112 00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:58,980 he presented himself - he surrendered himself to the police, he never hide - 113 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:02,950 he voluntarily went there when he was requested. From that moment, his life 114 00:14:02,950 --> 00:14:09,750 became a hell of surveillance. He was, not only, had a tag on his ankle following him 115 00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:14,280 everywhere, but he had the most strict bail conditions that you can imagine. He 116 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,740 could not even give a talk in London because he will have to go back. He had 117 00:14:19,740 --> 00:14:25,335 ridiculous hours to report himself to the police. He was watched all the time. He 118 00:14:25,335 --> 00:14:30,079 had to report to the police on a daily basis. Someone suspected of terrorism was 119 00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:35,470 enjoying more relaxed conditions than someone who wasn't charged. And that's a 120 00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:40,089 constant. In this case and other politically motivated cases, you are not 121 00:14:40,089 --> 00:14:45,890 the rule, you are the exception. And exceptionally harsh the system treats you. 122 00:14:45,890 --> 00:14:54,140 In 2012 struck for e-mails and also the Syria files. Syria files is a publication 123 00:14:54,140 --> 00:14:59,329 that is not often mentioned, but it was very relevant. Exposing all the dealings 124 00:14:59,329 --> 00:15:04,916 of the Syrian elites. And Julian is granted political asylum in Ecuador. He 125 00:15:04,916 --> 00:15:10,029 could have requested political asylum much earlier, but he wanted to go through all 126 00:15:10,029 --> 00:15:15,019 the legal process in the UK and all their appeals. And it was his last chance to 127 00:15:15,019 --> 00:15:22,160 exercise that right. Then 2013, the TPP text and Spy Files 2. And that was the 128 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:27,050 moment when Manning was sentenced to 35 years in prison. As Snowden is granted 129 00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:33,050 asylum in Moscow as well. And Jeremy Hammond is convicted and sentenced to 10 130 00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:38,030 years in prison. Jeremy Hammond is the alleged source of the Stratford, the 131 00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:47,320 Global Intelligence Files. Then 2014 TISA, Spy Files 3 and the updated TPP text, then 132 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,620 2015, the Sony archives, the Saudi cables. Actually, that Saudi cable publication was 133 00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:58,779 one of the most dangerous ones. You saw what happened to journalist Jamal 134 00:15:58,779 --> 00:16:02,950 Khashoggi. I mean, it is very, very dangerous publication and hacking team 135 00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:08,339 searchable database and the TPP final texts. This is very important because it 136 00:16:08,339 --> 00:16:15,670 really changed the life for better of loads of people. I personally work on 137 00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:23,950 global trade issues and the negotiators of developing countries or representing 138 00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:30,589 under-represented communities, like, they are so thankful to WikiLeaks for releasing 139 00:16:30,589 --> 00:16:37,740 and publishing the TPP/IP chapter because it means better access to medicine. It got 140 00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:42,560 the people with better conditions for negotiations in key issues such as access 141 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:49,450 to medicines. Then 2016, I would say that I will compare to 2010. And then you, 142 00:16:49,450 --> 00:16:53,570 again, torch the center of power. WikiLeaks torch again the center of power 143 00:16:53,570 --> 00:16:59,769 by publishing the Clinton, Podesta and DNC emails. And that change allowed the 144 00:16:59,769 --> 00:17:04,140 narrative and changed a lot the narrative in a very different world because it was 145 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:10,380 not any more tangible censorship on deck or the clear publication. But our 146 00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:16,049 information ecosystem, as we know, had been modified by social networks, by 147 00:17:16,049 --> 00:17:24,130 different forms of distributing and accessing content. 2017, Obama leaves the 148 00:17:24,130 --> 00:17:30,670 administration by commuting Chelsea Manning sentence and she's later release 149 00:17:30,670 --> 00:17:36,451 that year. And WikiLeaks publishes NSA spying on French Election. Vault 7, which 150 00:17:36,451 --> 00:17:44,770 is their tool kit of spying of the CIA and the spy files of Russia. 2018, Amazon 151 00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:52,310 Atlas, US embassy shopping list and their weapon dealers details. Here is very 152 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:57,480 important that the conditions of Julian changed radically after 2016 at the 153 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,870 Ecuadorian embassy and the pressure of the US increased terribly. And he was not 154 00:18:01,870 --> 00:18:06,230 allowed anymore to do his job as a journalist. He spent most of the year 155 00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:11,190 gagged, and he could not participate activel, directly on his role 156 00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:19,890 as editor. And 2019, you saw in the video. Assange is arrested. Manning is arrested 157 00:18:19,890 --> 00:18:26,270 again. But in spite of that, in spite of all the pressure, WikiLeaks refuses to 158 00:18:26,270 --> 00:18:31,650 shut down and continues publishing. The Pope orders, the Douma Chemical Attack and 159 00:18:31,650 --> 00:18:38,590 Fishrot. So as you can see, Julian has upset and WikiLeaks has upset enough 160 00:18:38,590 --> 00:18:44,690 people from the most powerful army in the world to the most powerful governments to 161 00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:49,840 the most powerful corporations. And so their plans, frustrated with the TPP 162 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:57,410 collapse, and the TTAP collapse, and TISA collapse to even the Pope. So if you 163 00:18:57,410 --> 00:19:04,240 upset, if you expose so many people, you have very few allies left. You have 164 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,210 basically the people as your allies. So that's why this talk is really, really, 165 00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:14,630 really important. And you have also the media, because over the 10 years WikiLeaks 166 00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:20,950 has worked closely with most of the news outlets all over the world. If you checked 167 00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:24,500 your newspaper tomorrow morning, it's highly likely that it was one of the 168 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:29,070 WikiLeaks media partners. This is just a small sample of over 125 169 00:19:29,070 --> 00:19:34,230 media organizations all over the world that had collaborated closely with 170 00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:37,230 WikiLeaks. Richter: And I just want to add a very 171 00:19:37,230 --> 00:19:42,299 interesting little detail that John Goetz told me, who was at that time - He's a 172 00:19:42,299 --> 00:19:47,950 journalist. He now works for Süddeutsche and ARD - and at that time, he was working 173 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:54,117 for Der Spiegel, who also worked closely with WikiLeaks at that time, 2010. And 174 00:19:54,117 --> 00:19:57,429 they published Cable Gate. And it's interesting to know that due to a 175 00:19:57,429 --> 00:20:03,390 technical glitch, because the deal was that WikiLeaks publishes first and after 176 00:20:03,390 --> 00:20:09,240 that, the newspapers follow. Spiegel, New York Times, Guardian and so on. And due to 177 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,810 this glitch, WikiLeaks was not able to publish in time. So they were too late 178 00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:20,669 with the publishing and all the newspapers came out already. So technically they 179 00:20:20,669 --> 00:20:24,970 published first, which is very important for the case in a way, because he's 180 00:20:24,970 --> 00:20:30,910 charged because he published it first, the Cable Gate. And it would be interesting 181 00:20:30,910 --> 00:20:35,620 because what does it mean? It means that actually the journalists from Spiegel and 182 00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:42,080 New York Times and Guardian could face the same penalties. And when you imagin that, 183 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,570 then I think the impact it has on publishing becomes even more chilling and 184 00:20:46,570 --> 00:20:51,140 clear, you know. So I thought to tell you this little detail about the publishing of 185 00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:56,020 Cable Gate. Avila: So what happened on 186 00:20:56,020 --> 00:21:01,941 April 11 when he was expelled from the embassy and dragged out is something that 187 00:21:01,941 --> 00:21:06,080 goes beyond just Julian Assange. As a human rights lawyer, do you know when I 188 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:14,070 see political unrest, when I see people, dissidents at risk, I always tell them 189 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:17,950 have a good relationship with a friendly embassy, that defends human rights and in 190 00:21:17,950 --> 00:21:21,410 case of trouble, get there, get inside an 191 00:21:21,410 --> 00:21:24,870 embassy. It is happening now with dissidents in Bolivia, for example, who 192 00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:29,670 are like right now at the embassy, in the embassy in Mexico. And we advise any of 193 00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:38,360 you do that. But now with caution, because now, since the violation and since this 194 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:44,240 really brutal way that asylum was taken away from an illegal way, that asylum was 195 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:49,460 taken away from Julian and the way that police from a different country enters an 196 00:21:49,460 --> 00:21:57,070 embassy, asylum has been weakened forever until we reverse this. That's why this is 197 00:21:57,070 --> 00:22:02,280 yet another reason why this case is very important. Right now, you know, even the 198 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:09,669 government of Bolivia is threatening the Mexican embassy to get inside and take out 199 00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:16,960 the dissidents seeking asylum inside the embassy. It is really upsetting to see how 200 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:22,840 an institution has over 400 years that was designed to protect dissidents is being 201 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:30,110 dismantled by this scandalous case. And well, when he was out, it happened what we 202 00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:38,110 had predicted for years. For years we have been saying at the moment when his arrest 203 00:22:38,110 --> 00:22:42,870 that they will unseal an indictment for espionage. And everyone will look at us 204 00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:48,500 like back in 2010 and 2011, say, look, you're paranoid. There is no way that the 205 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:55,020 US is going to prosecute Julian. He's just hiding from Swedish charges that were 206 00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:59,320 saying. Always charges, even there were never charges. And he is a coward and he's 207 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:05,110 a paranoid. And this is not going to happen. It happened immediately, and it 208 00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:12,809 happened immediately. And just as predicted, it was so upsetting to see the 209 00:23:12,809 --> 00:23:18,140 result of the Swedish investigation, because not only, over there, I mean, 210 00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:23,410 there was a good journalist doing her job and she discovered over the years 211 00:23:23,410 --> 00:23:30,500 different irregularities. Sweden wanted to shut down the case back in 2013, after the 212 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:36,919 asylum was granted. An obstacle... it was a collusion. And it's really good... if 213 00:23:36,919 --> 00:23:41,960 you like documents and you like deep research, get into the documents that are 214 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,980 already available and see how the UK system put a lot of pressure on Sweden, 215 00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:55,910 not to prosecute this case as they usually prosecute any case. Things as simple as a 216 00:23:55,910 --> 00:24:00,909 videoconference could have been taking place back in 2010, back on August, 217 00:24:00,909 --> 00:24:06,640 September 2010. And it didn't happen because of a lot of political pressure. 218 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:13,669 So, now the charges. There are 18 charges against Julian Assange and they might be 219 00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:19,890 charges against more people who were mentioned in the indictment. The charges, 220 00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:28,440 that he's facing for publishing, amount to 175 years in prison. And to make your 221 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:34,130 life simpler, basically the charges are: online publishing, protecting 222 00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:40,530 sources and doing journalism. If you read what it is about, it's really chilling and 223 00:24:40,530 --> 00:24:46,920 is especially chilling because look at who's in charge now. Right now all over 224 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,450 the world. And it is the first time that the Justice Department gets away with it. 225 00:24:52,450 --> 00:24:59,070 It is using that very anachronic law to obtain an indictment from a grand jury, 226 00:24:59,070 --> 00:25:05,470 that is from a group of people who thinks that it is okay to prosecute under 227 00:25:05,470 --> 00:25:13,500 Espionage Act charges, online publication. If you get a takeaway from tonight: This 228 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:19,910 is the takeaway. This is the serious thing that we are discussing right now. And the 229 00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:25,270 thing is, this is important, because at the center of this is our right to know. 230 00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:34,440 The right to publish it on our site, is our right to know. Three relevant aspects 231 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:40,450 of the charges. You will read a lot of: "Oooh, but WikiLeaks and Julian had blood 232 00:25:40,450 --> 00:25:47,280 on his hands." "It risked informants and put at risk." These charges have 233 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:53,110 nothing to do with this risk assessment. That will not be even known by the court. 234 00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:58,910 These redactions and these measures of protection, that, over another in media, 235 00:25:58,910 --> 00:26:05,559 not relevant for their espionage charges. And it is also important to notice, that 236 00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:10,980 it mentions constantly over the indictment, WikiLeaks as an intelligence agency of the 237 00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:17,750 people. And that mirrors the language of Pompeo, the current secretary of state, 238 00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:26,390 who is trying to frame WikiLeaks as a non- state terrorist actor. Like the equivalent 239 00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:33,929 of al-Qaeda. And that has huge, horrible implications, not only on the core 240 00:26:33,929 --> 00:26:39,240 WikiLeaks organization, but on supporters even wearing a T-shirt, reading a book 241 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:45,789 about it. It can place you in a not so nice place. The important thing, that is 242 00:26:45,789 --> 00:26:52,870 very worrying is, that more people may be detained and charged, before or after the 243 00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:56,850 extradition takes place. Colvin: And we don't have to speculate 244 00:26:56,850 --> 00:27:02,290 about this dragnet, of course, because it is already here. Already here in its 245 00:27:02,290 --> 00:27:08,250 pattern of intimidation and petty and vindictiveness. Chelsea Manning, one of 246 00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:12,840 the great heroes of our time, one month before Julian was expelled from the 247 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,700 Ecuadorian embassy and arrested on U.S. charges, just like it always said would 248 00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:22,200 happen. One month before, Chelsea Manning received a subpoena to testify before a 249 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:27,549 grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia. She refused to testify and was 250 00:27:27,549 --> 00:27:35,340 imprisoned for contempt. She is currently... she's served 10 months. Back 251 00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:40,780 in prison, she is currently being fined a thousand dollars for every day she spends 252 00:27:40,780 --> 00:27:46,480 in prison, not testifying. This is what Chelsea said about what is happening, in a 253 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,630 statement in May: "I believe this grand jury seeks to undermine the integrity of 254 00:27:51,630 --> 00:27:56,220 public discourse with the aim of punishing those who expose any serious, ongoing and 255 00:27:56,220 --> 00:28:01,485 systematic abuses of power. The idea I hold the keys to my own cell is an absurd 256 00:28:01,485 --> 00:28:05,610 one. As I face the prospect of suffering either way, due to this unnecessary and 257 00:28:05,610 --> 00:28:11,500 punitive subpoena: I can either go to jail or betray my principles. The latter exists 258 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:18,620 as a much worse prison than the government can construct." In September, Jeremy 259 00:28:18,620 --> 00:28:23,779 Hammond, coming to the end of a long prison sentence for his role in the 260 00:28:23,779 --> 00:28:30,150 publication of the Go Global intelligence files. He received a, he was called, 261 00:28:30,150 --> 00:28:34,640 against his will, to testify before a grand jury, again, in the Eastern District 262 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:41,490 of Virginia. Again, he refused to testify. Again, he's been jailed for a possible 18 263 00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:48,150 months on contempt. Because this is what he had to say about it in October: "After 264 00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:52,320 seven and a half years of paying my debt to society, the government seeks to punish 265 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,039 me further with its vindictive, politically motivated legal maneuver to 266 00:28:56,039 --> 00:29:00,670 delay my release. I am opposed to all grand juries, but I am opposed to this one 267 00:29:00,670 --> 00:29:04,529 in particular because it is a part of the government's ongoing war on free speech 268 00:29:04,529 --> 00:29:09,761 journalists and whistleblowers." If this hadn't happened to Jeremy, he would be in 269 00:29:09,761 --> 00:29:15,440 a halfway house by now. He would've been released from prison. He might have been 270 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:23,429 participating in this Congress. On the 11th of April this year, the same day that 271 00:29:23,429 --> 00:29:27,980 Julian was expelled from the Ecuadorian embassy and arrested and indicted by the 272 00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:32,950 United States, just like he always said would happen, his friend Ola Bini was 273 00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:39,110 arrested in Ecuador. Ola spent two months in an Ecuadorian prison in absolutely 274 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:44,387 disgusting conditions, until he was released by a writ of habeas corpus. Ola 275 00:29:44,387 --> 00:29:48,240 has now been charged with charges that suggest that the prosecutors in Ecuador 276 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,257 don't really understand what it is, that security researchers do every day. Senior 277 00:29:53,257 --> 00:29:56,870 Ecuadorian politicians, the most senior Ecuadorian politicians, have been on 278 00:29:56,870 --> 00:30:03,254 television in Ecuador, saying that Ola is guilty before any trial date has been set. 279 00:30:03,254 --> 00:30:09,460 Organizations like Amnesty and EFF have said, that Ola's prosecution is political. 280 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:16,100 And of course, they are quite correct. It's all political. Extradition is 281 00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:20,720 political. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Extradition is an 282 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,600 institution, developed as a deal behind closed doors, done between sovereign 283 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,529 powers. It's only in the past hundred years or so, the parts that have been 284 00:30:31,529 --> 00:30:36,440 transferred into courtrooms. But politicians still have an active role in 285 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,979 extradition proceedings, and sometimes extradition is used for political 286 00:30:39,979 --> 00:30:46,809 purposes. Extradition in the UK is also very political. What is it that every taxi 287 00:30:46,809 --> 00:30:50,010 driver in London could tell you about extradition? if you don't believe me, 288 00:30:50,010 --> 00:30:53,700 you're welcome to test this out empirically, next time you're in town. 289 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:58,840 What is it they'll tell you? They will tell you that the UK has an unfair, 290 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:05,640 unequal, unbalanced, inequitable extradition treaty with the United States. This treaty 291 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,039 dates from 2002, when Tony Blair was keen to give the United States everything it 292 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:17,960 could possibly want and more. One of the gentlemen pictured in this slide is Gary 293 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:23,720 McKinnon. Very shortly after the 2002 extradition treaty came into force, Gary 294 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:29,140 McKinnon started a 10 year battle not to be extradited to the United States on 295 00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:34,080 hacking charges. He prevailed, in the end, but only after he'd been through the 296 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:42,540 entire legal process twice. And he was rescued, eventually, by the say so of a UK 297 00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:46,730 home secretary. The other gentleman on that slide is Lowry Love. In February last 298 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:53,450 year, Larry won his battle against extradition to the United States, again on 299 00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:58,814 hacking charges, at appeal in the high court. I was involved in that campaign. 300 00:31:58,814 --> 00:32:02,770 I'm glad he won. I'm glad he won, because it means we have a hope of saving Julian. 301 00:32:02,770 --> 00:32:08,740 He'd be in trouble if he hadn't. Larry won on two different bases. One of them is 302 00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:13,400 very relevant. One of the reasons why Lowry won his battle against extradition 303 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,510 is, because judges in the high court, including the most senior judge in England 304 00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:24,120 and Wales, ruled that U.S. prisons are so bad, the conditions are so barbaric, so 305 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,280 medieval, that somebody with preexisting health conditions like Lowry, there was no 306 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,340 guarantee he'd stay alive in a US prison. You might be hearing more about that in 307 00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:41,590 February next year. But there are other big, big issues involved in Julian 308 00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:46,600 Assange's extradition case. Big, big issues that don't necessarily involve him 309 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:53,529 that much at all. The first clip on that slide is a part of Jon Stewart Mill's 310 00:32:53,529 --> 00:32:58,360 autobiography. John Stuart Mill, liberal philosopher, and also a British politician, 311 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:06,020 for a bit. And in this extract, he's talking about how he battled to change an 312 00:33:06,020 --> 00:33:11,980 earlier incarnation of a UK extradition treaty because he didn't want the British 313 00:33:11,980 --> 00:33:16,020 government to become, quote, "an accomplice in the vengeance of foreign 314 00:33:16,020 --> 00:33:21,010 despotisms". Extradition should not be used as a political tool for foreign 315 00:33:21,010 --> 00:33:27,390 governments to pursue and punish people it doesn't like. People who are guilty of 316 00:33:27,390 --> 00:33:33,950 political offenses. It's a fundamental question of sovereignty. If you were at 317 00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:38,399 Andy Müller-Maguhn's excellent talk yesterday morning, you will have heard 318 00:33:38,399 --> 00:33:43,130 about the pervasive, thoroughgoing and quite frightening surveillance that was 319 00:33:43,130 --> 00:33:46,940 happening at the at Ecuadorian embassy for the seven years that Julian Assange was 320 00:33:46,940 --> 00:33:54,010 living there. This raises a fundamental issue: If your every legal conference, all 321 00:33:54,010 --> 00:33:58,800 of your discussions with your lawyers are being surveilled and allegedly passed 322 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,390 straight to the power that's trying to prosecute you, if all of your legal 323 00:34:02,390 --> 00:34:05,970 documents are handed over, allegedly - well, actually, we know that - to the 324 00:34:05,970 --> 00:34:09,920 power that's trying to prosecute you. What does that mean for your chances of a fair 325 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:15,349 trial? If you care about surveillance at all, we're going to have to make a stand 326 00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:19,349 in this very extreme case, because if we don't, how are we ever going to stand up 327 00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:26,510 for fair trial rights for anyone? Richter: Yes. And before I go further in 328 00:34:26,510 --> 00:34:31,359 our topic, I just want to say that I have personal experience with the surveillance 329 00:34:31,359 --> 00:34:37,679 happening in the embassy, because I used to visit Julian many, many times, maybe 30 330 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:42,799 times from the moment he entered the embassy till the last time I saw him is 331 00:34:42,799 --> 00:34:48,049 nearly exactly a year ago. It was around Christmas last year. And at that point, I 332 00:34:48,049 --> 00:34:54,700 mean, I really could see the eroding conditions that he lived in. I mean, just 333 00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:58,849 to see a person that didn't see the sunlight for 7 years or something was 334 00:34:58,849 --> 00:35:06,569 terrible enough. But then the last year when he lived quasi in isolation, had no 335 00:35:06,569 --> 00:35:12,650 access to phone or to internet, nothing, because that was the way that he had 336 00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:17,739 contact with the world and had no visitors anymore for nearly a year, I think, 337 00:35:17,739 --> 00:35:27,390 because we the people that visited him, we were kind of his door to the world. And it 338 00:35:27,390 --> 00:35:32,400 was for me, very, very, very weird to be surveilled all the time when I was there. 339 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:38,890 Sometimes I spend five hours at least there. And after a while, you just feel 340 00:35:38,890 --> 00:35:42,970 very uncomfortable. I was so happy when I could leave that building, actually. 341 00:35:42,970 --> 00:35:48,430 Especially in the last two years. And then I could not imagine staying there like him 342 00:35:48,430 --> 00:35:52,979 having no private moment. I mean, in the end, they even put cameras in the 343 00:35:52,979 --> 00:35:58,630 bathrooms and and the toilets and so on. I know there was this tiny kitchen, 344 00:35:58,630 --> 00:36:02,440 sometimes we used to hide from the cameras to just have a moment of just talking 345 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:09,059 without feeling surveilled. And then he had also this little apparatus, I think 346 00:36:09,059 --> 00:36:14,980 Andy was talking about it yesterday in his talk, that was causing white noise. And I 347 00:36:14,980 --> 00:36:20,160 was really annoyed, to be honest, by this little thing. And I was always, I was also 348 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,729 thinking about, my God, maybe he is too paranoid, you know. Because the weird 349 00:36:24,729 --> 00:36:29,150 thing is you get used to everything, and somehow, like us now being surveilled all 350 00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:33,920 the time through our phones and laptops and so on, and we get used to it. But he 351 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,029 always insisted, even when we were talking like banal stuff about, I don't know, a 352 00:36:39,029 --> 00:36:45,759 soccer game or something, the little sound machine was on causing white noise. And 353 00:36:45,759 --> 00:36:49,660 not only it caused disturbance for the surveillors, it also caused headaches in 354 00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:57,339 my head. And so, yeah, it's actually a very sad story. And for me, it was to see 355 00:36:57,339 --> 00:37:01,430 the process, when especially after the government, the conservative government 356 00:37:01,430 --> 00:37:07,030 came into power in Ecuador, his status very much changed. And so he became more 357 00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:12,099 and more something I would describe as a prisoner and not someone who has asylum. 358 00:37:12,099 --> 00:37:19,250 Okay. This is on my personal note, how I experienced it. And the other thing is, on 359 00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:25,150 this picture you see one of the first protests that we did in Berlin, it was 360 00:37:25,150 --> 00:37:32,630 this year in May. It was a little after he was dragged out of the embassy. And we 361 00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:40,369 were there with some people, including Srećko Horvat, Croatian philosopher. And 362 00:37:40,369 --> 00:37:44,369 as you see on the picture also Ai Weiwei, the Chinese artist and human rights 363 00:37:44,369 --> 00:37:53,099 advocate, who also openly supported Assange always, and also not afraid of 364 00:37:53,099 --> 00:37:59,150 consequences, actually. And he also visited him in prison. And what is 365 00:37:59,150 --> 00:38:04,140 also an interesting fact, that Ai Weiwei also made the connection between the 366 00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:11,640 protests against the extradition law in Hong Kong. And he connected with this very 367 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,730 controversial extradition case of Julian in the UK at the moment. So for me, it's 368 00:38:16,730 --> 00:38:21,970 sometimes something I could never believe in, former times that I will be in a 369 00:38:21,970 --> 00:38:27,110 situation where we in the West, who are the good ones and the free West, the so- 370 00:38:27,110 --> 00:38:33,589 called free West is somehow actually in the top 10 of having dissidents in 371 00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:41,880 prisons, including the ones that we just named, and that no human rights seem to be 372 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:48,170 valuable anymore. And I find this very concerning, I must say, also on a private 373 00:38:48,170 --> 00:39:00,440 level. Yes. And I was there, too, as you see in the photograph. And before I went 374 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:07,459 to the protest I was in Moscow, and I visited Edward Snowden, because I also 375 00:39:07,459 --> 00:39:11,849 worked with him together. He helped me a lot on the place I did. And this was the 376 00:39:11,849 --> 00:39:16,670 third time, actually, that I visited him. And we also talked about Julian's case, 377 00:39:16,670 --> 00:39:23,269 and he gave me a letter of support that I was reading out loud on this protest. And 378 00:39:23,269 --> 00:39:27,940 I will just read a little bit of it, that you can see now: "By the government's own 379 00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:32,009 admission, Assange has been charged for his role in bringing to light true 380 00:39:32,009 --> 00:39:37,589 information. Information that exposed war crimes and wrongdoing perpetrated by the 381 00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:43,749 most powerful military in the history of the world. It is not just a man who stands 382 00:39:43,749 --> 00:39:50,940 in jeopardy, but the future of the free press." Yes, and I think that he is very 383 00:39:50,940 --> 00:40:01,849 much right in this case, because what does it mean? I mean, for me, I'm also in the 384 00:40:01,849 --> 00:40:07,709 meantime, working as a journalist for Der Freitag, I published a few of the articles 385 00:40:07,709 --> 00:40:15,200 about him and Snowden, and basically about whistleblowing and these things. And if he 386 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:21,660 can - if publishing becomes a crime, telling the truth becomes a crime. And if 387 00:40:21,660 --> 00:40:28,769 you are not able to work with sources, to protect sources and to actively also try 388 00:40:28,769 --> 00:40:39,009 to obtain material about truth. And because we live in a democracy where the 389 00:40:39,009 --> 00:40:44,440 powers have to be shared and to have a balance of power, because as we know, when 390 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:54,009 power gets into a monopoly, it will always be abused. And so... 391 00:40:54,009 --> 00:40:58,709 *mumbling* I will cut it short. It has bad 392 00:40:58,709 --> 00:41:03,400 implications for journalists. And if this happens to Julian, it is a threat not only 393 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:09,540 to journalism, but to democracy itself. Avila: So we will accelerate, because all 394 00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:15,059 the what comes next is very, very important. And yes, we saw immediately 395 00:41:15,059 --> 00:41:22,940 after the arrest of Julian the situation going really badly in Australia. But what 396 00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:28,130 I wanted to discuss, we wanted to discuss with you tonight, this is about you, about 397 00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:35,569 someone just like you. You can see, I mean, I guess I can see you there. I can 398 00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:40,019 see you in these pictures and I can see lots of similarities. You belong to the 399 00:41:40,019 --> 00:41:46,660 same species, basically. He was a single father. He was prosecuted at a very, very 400 00:41:46,660 --> 00:41:52,829 young age. Spent five years of his 20s fighting a legal process. But he was all 401 00:41:52,829 --> 00:41:57,819 the time with his computer. I cannot, I really cannot imagine how his life was 402 00:41:57,819 --> 00:42:02,829 since April, away from his computer. Can you imagine your life away from your 403 00:42:02,829 --> 00:42:08,299 computer even for one day? Imagine since April, he has been away from his computer 404 00:42:08,299 --> 00:42:15,839 and only having one hour a day outside a prison cell. And so while he was raising 405 00:42:15,839 --> 00:42:22,690 up a kid as a single parent, and while he was dealing with a hacking legal process, 406 00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:29,089 he also was actively working for our communities. He was co-running one of the 407 00:42:29,089 --> 00:42:34,319 first public access Internet providers in Australia. He was always involved and 408 00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:40,599 dedicated thousands of hours to the free software movement. His code was even used 409 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:47,530 by Apple and other operating system. So chances are that today, even today, our 410 00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:54,029 computers, our Apple devices - for the bad people who uses Apple like me - Ironic 411 00:42:54,029 --> 00:43:02,180 part of his code. He was also from very early time trying to find ways for 412 00:43:02,180 --> 00:43:09,319 vulnerable groups such as human rights defenders, ways to encrypt their devices. 413 00:43:09,319 --> 00:43:14,190 And so he was very active before WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks just was an upgrade, 414 00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:19,959 kind of, on his plans. And I also want to mention that the CCC is mentioned, 415 00:43:19,959 --> 00:43:27,950 expressly mentioned, in that part of the indictment against Julian. So what happens 416 00:43:27,950 --> 00:43:37,009 here, you know, it matters there. I think that the sole fact that the community is 417 00:43:37,009 --> 00:43:42,130 mentioned on an indictment against a journalist is enough reason to stand up 418 00:43:42,130 --> 00:43:46,930 and say something about it and organize around it. But it is not only the 419 00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:53,570 community name on the indictment, and the criminal complaint is also our 420 00:43:53,570 --> 00:44:00,640 communication practices. Raise your hand if you have a Jabber account. So, yes, the 421 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,829 Jabber server, the CCC server, is mentioned in the criminal complaint 422 00:44:04,829 --> 00:44:10,809 against Julian. Colvin: Well, yeah, I mean, but what's 423 00:44:10,809 --> 00:44:17,971 even more worrying is - oh, the microphone - What's there is worrying, but what's 424 00:44:17,971 --> 00:44:23,079 even more worrying is that it's a moving target. Things are still continuing. This 425 00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:28,180 is part of a submission the US government made in Chelsea Manning's ongoing 426 00:44:28,180 --> 00:44:32,969 procedures talk about an ongoing investigation. There's more to come. And 427 00:44:32,969 --> 00:44:40,999 it's even more bad omens. *microphone noise* Like that one. Even more bad omens from from across the 428 00:44:40,999 --> 00:44:47,799 water in unrelated cases and will prosecutorial series that are being put 429 00:44:47,799 --> 00:44:53,160 together, which are very disturbing and augur for very bad things to come. I can't 430 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,359 talk about that now, but it's an excellent issue for the Q and A. What happens next? 431 00:44:57,359 --> 00:45:01,489 Well, immediately what's going to happen next is that on the 24th of February, for 432 00:45:01,489 --> 00:45:05,880 three or four weeks, Julian Assange will have his extradition hearing. To give you 433 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,940 an indication of the size and scale of this case, Larry loves extradition 434 00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:13,529 hearing, which was quite a big deal and quite big. Took two and a half days. 435 00:45:13,529 --> 00:45:18,940 Julian's is going to be three or four weeks. It will take place in Belmarsh 436 00:45:18,940 --> 00:45:23,792 Magistrates Court in a horrible part of south east London, near the prison. It 437 00:45:23,792 --> 00:45:27,180 will probably take place in the courthouse next door. They've got bigger courts, but 438 00:45:27,180 --> 00:45:34,779 it will be in that place in London. Richter: So what can you do? OK. Do not be 439 00:45:34,779 --> 00:45:40,779 afraid to speak up, speak with people and so on. And don't be afraid. We still live 440 00:45:40,779 --> 00:45:45,729 in a free country. Immunize yourself against propaganda, which is really 441 00:45:45,729 --> 00:45:51,130 something that you should be beware. That happened massively in the case of Julian. 442 00:45:51,130 --> 00:45:56,109 I think you know what I mean. And understand what is at stake. This is a 443 00:45:56,109 --> 00:46:02,280 political persecution and it's about everyone. And I want to quote Nils Melzer, 444 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:07,640 the U.N. special rapporteur on torture, who I met recently and this is a very 445 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:13,089 famous quote of him, that he was continuously actually saying to people in 446 00:46:13,089 --> 00:46:18,369 power. "Assange has been systematically slandered to divert attention, attention 447 00:46:18,369 --> 00:46:24,369 from the crimes, crimes he exposed once he had been dehumanized through isolation, 448 00:46:24,369 --> 00:46:29,529 ridicule and shame. Just like the witches we used to burn at the stake. It was easy 449 00:46:29,529 --> 00:46:34,269 to deprive him of his most fundamental rights and without provoking public 450 00:46:34,269 --> 00:46:39,599 outrage worldwide." And I think this is exactly what happened to him. 451 00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:43,209 Avila: And this is a picture of really courageous journalists from all over the 452 00:46:43,209 --> 00:46:48,600 world who stand up and say, like, stop this prosecution. And they are a community 453 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:55,779 Julian belongs to. But I have seen very few real statements from this community. 454 00:46:55,779 --> 00:47:00,940 So our request tonight will be like, please try to organize and try to do a 455 00:47:00,940 --> 00:47:05,880 similar effort that matters a lot. Now, we will explain why. 456 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,900 Colvin: It's really important, because no man is an island and the UK is not an 457 00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:14,119 island. Even after Brexit, right? The UK government does care about its 458 00:47:14,119 --> 00:47:18,369 international reputation, maybe unlike the US. And the UK government needs to know 459 00:47:18,369 --> 00:47:22,719 that the world is watching. The world is watching, they are hosting entirely 460 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:29,780 unnecessarily, the most ridiculous, the most important press freedom truck case of 461 00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:32,799 a generation, completely unnecessarily. They need to know that we're keeping a 462 00:47:32,799 --> 00:47:36,779 careful eye on it. Over the past few months, we've been putting a lot of effort 463 00:47:36,779 --> 00:47:41,749 into ensuring that the extradition hearing, the trial, if you like, in 464 00:47:41,749 --> 00:47:46,359 February is properly monitored. We have 25 elected parliamentarians and 12 European 465 00:47:46,359 --> 00:47:50,019 countries who have committed to be being part of those monitoring efforts. 466 00:47:50,019 --> 00:47:54,920 Reporters sans Frontières are going to are going to monitor. We have a whole group of 467 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,725 medics who are going to monitor the extradition proceedings. And I think it 468 00:47:58,725 --> 00:48:02,469 would be good to have a similar effort from this community, too, frankly. 469 00:48:02,469 --> 00:48:06,959 Avila: Especially because there are many technical issues being discussed. Your 470 00:48:06,959 --> 00:48:11,509 opinion really matters for this trial, you know. And he can't do it. He cannot do it 471 00:48:11,509 --> 00:48:16,319 from prison. He counts on you to help lawyers, to help the press, to help 472 00:48:16,319 --> 00:48:21,549 everyone understand what is and what isn't online publishing and online 473 00:48:21,549 --> 00:48:26,849 journalism. 21st Century journalism is at stake on this case. 474 00:48:26,849 --> 00:48:30,859 Colvin: And your voice really matters here. It really does. Yes. 475 00:48:30,859 --> 00:48:36,680 Avila: And, you know, he's our friend. And it's not only someone we support, but he's 476 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:42,150 our friend. And he likes to have the final word, always. So we can now bring, 477 00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:49,309 bringing him back from the - eleven years ago from a Congress like this one, to have 478 00:48:49,309 --> 00:48:56,349 the final word. *video sound fails* 479 00:48:56,349 --> 00:49:09,809 Voice from the off: Oh, oh, oh. Hey, CIA? Yeah. No, it's only a glitch. He's going 480 00:49:09,809 --> 00:49:23,019 to be frustrated, really angry. *laughs* Richter: Try again? 481 00:49:23,019 --> 00:49:28,939 Avila: Is it ok? Richter: Should we try? 482 00:49:28,939 --> 00:49:33,999 Avila: If not, we can... In the meantime, we can read it out, we can read it out, 483 00:49:33,999 --> 00:49:42,249 so... Colvin: "Justice doesn't just happen. 484 00:49:42,249 --> 00:49:46,279 Justice is forced by people coming together and exercising strength, unity 485 00:49:46,279 --> 00:49:52,520 and intelligence." That's Julian at 25C3. 486 00:49:52,520 --> 00:50:09,882 *applause* 487 00:50:09,882 --> 00:50:12,220 Avila: Shall we try? Richter: Should we try? 488 00:50:12,220 --> 00:50:18,319 Avila: Let's try one last time. No. Oh, my God, silence. 489 00:50:18,319 --> 00:50:21,839 Colvin: He'll be annoyed by that. He would be very annoyed. He's going to be really 490 00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:25,479 angry about that. All right. Avila: Please do not tell him. 491 00:50:25,479 --> 00:50:28,479 Colvin: Yeah. Yeah, don't tell him. If you don't tell him, he won't know. 492 00:50:28,479 --> 00:50:31,479 Avila: Yeah. So we are ready for some questions. I think that we have very 493 00:50:31,479 --> 00:50:35,769 little time, but if we don't have enough time, we will be hanging out that the 494 00:50:35,769 --> 00:50:41,989 teahouse and you can come to us and ask questions and how to help. 495 00:50:41,989 --> 00:50:45,059 Herald Angel: Thank you so much. 496 00:50:45,059 --> 00:50:53,819 *applause* 497 00:50:53,819 --> 00:51:00,729 It was very insightful, moving and incredibly important. So I remind everyone 498 00:51:00,729 --> 00:51:07,329 that we have six microphones. If you have questions, line up behind them. And also 499 00:51:07,329 --> 00:51:12,860 our wonderful signal angels are going to take some questions from the internet, one 500 00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:20,170 of which we're going to answer right now. Signal Angel: Ok, there was the question 501 00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:24,219 that: Which reasons could there be to explain the lack of fair and well balanced 502 00:51:24,219 --> 00:51:30,569 media reports in the Assange case? Colvin: What are the reasons for the lack 503 00:51:30,569 --> 00:51:43,720 of support of media coverage? OK. Avila: You want to answer that? 504 00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:48,630 Richter: You start and I will also help. *Mumbling* 505 00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:53,769 Avila: Very quickly I will say that, going back to this slide on who he 506 00:51:53,769 --> 00:51:58,599 exposed: the most powerful people. If you have the most powerful people, like, 507 00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:06,209 in the world, private sector, public sector, even hidden sector against you and 508 00:52:06,209 --> 00:52:13,789 with unlimited resources to take you down, it's quite easy to kill positive stories. It 509 00:52:13,789 --> 00:52:18,660 is really hard in times that journalism is on the resource and that the courageous 510 00:52:18,660 --> 00:52:23,789 journalists are not, like, really rewarded. It is really difficult 511 00:52:23,789 --> 00:52:28,619 to navigate that ecosystem. Richter: Yes. And I want to add that also 512 00:52:28,619 --> 00:52:34,369 there is a reason. I think if journalism today would be - do a proper job of 513 00:52:34,369 --> 00:52:39,670 investigating and exposing the powerful, that it would not be necessary that 514 00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:45,799 WikiLeaks even exists. I think if they would do their job as the fourth, so- 515 00:52:45,799 --> 00:52:52,569 called fourth estate in democracy, then something like WikiLeaks wouldn't even be 516 00:52:52,569 --> 00:52:58,519 there. And I think that might be a reason that I think that the - he not only 517 00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:01,859 exposed the powerful, but he also a little bit exposed, of course, his 518 00:53:01,859 --> 00:53:05,900 colleagues at the so-called established press. And I think that every 519 00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:11,269 reason that he gave, and there were some because he's not perfect, Julian Assange 520 00:53:11,269 --> 00:53:16,759 is only human, and he did make mistakes like everybody of us. And I could say, OK, 521 00:53:16,759 --> 00:53:22,119 take the first stone and throw it. But I think that, of course, bad news is always 522 00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:27,910 good news. And let's say many people who knew him said, let's say, negative things 523 00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:32,640 that the press picked up. But, like, when I would say to press - or I also know 524 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,579 him, I think he's a decent guy. Nobody wants to report that because it's boring 525 00:53:36,579 --> 00:53:39,859 and not interesting. So, yeah. There are many reasons for that, I think. 526 00:53:39,859 --> 00:53:42,410 Colvin: I'm going to add that, I mean, the fact that there are 10 years of history 527 00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:46,131 here definitely makes a difference. But look, I speak to a lot of journalists and 528 00:53:46,131 --> 00:53:52,279 I speak to a lot of journalists about this case in the UK and particularly as it's 529 00:53:52,279 --> 00:53:57,939 become more obvious that Julian is not doing very well, that he's very unwell. I 530 00:53:57,939 --> 00:54:02,399 think people are shocked. And I can you know. People are frightened about it. They 531 00:54:02,399 --> 00:54:06,519 might not be talking about it very much at the moment, but they will. It is what is 532 00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,999 changing around for sure. Richter: Yes. And then, speaking of being 533 00:54:09,999 --> 00:54:13,499 frightened, also, don't underestimate that people might be afraid. 534 00:54:13,499 --> 00:54:18,390 Avila: And also, I know that there are many journalists here tonight. This is 535 00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:23,259 your opportunity to change the narrative because you are next if you stay silent. 536 00:54:23,259 --> 00:54:29,749 Herald: Thank you. We're going to take the next question from a man who's wearing a 537 00:54:29,749 --> 00:54:35,699 Julian Assange mask. Gathering worth the effort and microphone 2 please. 538 00:54:35,699 --> 00:54:42,439 M2: Oh, hi. I want to thank you so much for your talk. When we are all facing 539 00:54:42,439 --> 00:54:47,989 this situation of asking ourselves what we can do, we should take inspiration from 540 00:54:47,989 --> 00:54:54,079 what you just said and what you just did. It is not just about Julian. It is about 541 00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:57,839 every one of us here. Herald: This is wonderful, but that is not 542 00:54:57,839 --> 00:54:59,839 a question. M2: No, but I'm getting there. 543 00:54:59,839 --> 00:55:04,529 Herald: Can you get there faster? M2: It's about historical perspective on 544 00:55:04,529 --> 00:55:10,240 all these aspects about war, about power, about what we can do, about what the 545 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:15,880 internet is about to question power. It is about also maybe admitting - 546 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:21,039 Herald: Maybe much faster? M2: much faster. It is not perfect. You may 547 00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:25,930 have said stupid things on Twitter like we all did. And like anyone would do after 548 00:55:25,930 --> 00:55:30,880 seven years in detention. Yet he's one of us. So when asking 549 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,870 ourselves what to do. It's a modest contribution from the internet. There is a 550 00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:39,289 wiki that is online for a few days now on these stickers that you 551 00:55:39,289 --> 00:55:47,299 Herald: okay. We're going to take an actual question. I am really sorry, but. 552 00:55:47,299 --> 00:55:52,079 Microphone 1, please. *applause* Richter: Okay, still thank you. 553 00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:58,689 M1: I thank you for the inspiring talk, so I am a Pakistani journalist I now live in 554 00:55:58,689 --> 00:56:05,599 exile in Berlin. But what the story of Assange and what we just saw this. You 555 00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:09,359 know, everything that happened and the perpetrators that even put the 556 00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:15,029 authoritarian regimes and their leaders in shame, especially how the system of asylum 557 00:56:15,029 --> 00:56:19,729 has been breached. That also scares me. I have actually called because I'm scared. 558 00:56:19,729 --> 00:56:23,509 But my question is, could you as journalists maybe shed some light on the 559 00:56:23,509 --> 00:56:27,429 on the chilling effect for journalists? I mean, I can only imagine that there might 560 00:56:27,429 --> 00:56:31,759 be more leaks in line that would have happened, but maybe has not happened 561 00:56:31,759 --> 00:56:36,910 because the journalists are also now self censoring. So what would you advise to 562 00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:43,339 such journalists? Thank you. Richter: Well, that is is really exactly a 563 00:56:43,339 --> 00:56:48,289 very tough question. And this is exactly one of the dangers that we are pointing to 564 00:56:48,289 --> 00:56:53,440 you know, that people might just not expose it. And like I said, people are 565 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,824 starting to get afraid. What can we say to them? Well, ... 566 00:56:58,824 --> 00:57:00,649 Avila: I have something 567 00:57:00,649 --> 00:57:04,570 and I think that Julian has something to say, this is endless with justice, with as 568 00:57:04,570 --> 00:57:10,380 a community, with strength, unity and indulgence. I mean, look at the talent in 569 00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:17,949 this room. Look, it's not necessarily just the brilliance of one whistleblower or one 570 00:57:17,949 --> 00:57:23,979 person. It's the ecosystem that we need to create to create resilient media. And we 571 00:57:23,979 --> 00:57:29,630 need a resilient media for democracy to work. And if it cannot happen, even here 572 00:57:29,630 --> 00:57:33,689 in Germany, with all the resources and with all the brilliant minds, where is it 573 00:57:33,689 --> 00:57:39,249 going to happen? So I think that we cannot stop innovating and we need to push for 574 00:57:39,249 --> 00:57:48,199 the next wave of innovations for the journalism that we've served these needs 575 00:57:48,199 --> 00:57:52,739 in our times. And that's why this case matters a lot, because it's punishing 576 00:57:52,739 --> 00:57:57,380 these innovations that these two redistributed power among people. Yeah. 577 00:57:57,380 --> 00:58:01,069 There also needs to be a recognition. A bit of solidarity is necessary here, 578 00:58:01,069 --> 00:58:06,359 because this isn't just about Julian. As Renata mentioned briefly, things in 579 00:58:06,359 --> 00:58:10,410 Australia have gone to pop since Julian was arrested. And more than that, one of 580 00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:14,969 the slides I flicked over was the indictment of a drone with alleged drone 581 00:58:14,969 --> 00:58:19,569 whistleblower, Daniel Hale. In Daniel Hale the count - one of Daniel Hale's 582 00:58:19,569 --> 00:58:24,309 indictment accuses him of unlawfully releasing information. About unlawfully 583 00:58:24,309 --> 00:58:29,449 releasing information to a journalist who he knew would have used it unlawfully. So 584 00:58:29,449 --> 00:58:34,219 this is like the second time in a US indictment we have an accusation of a 585 00:58:34,219 --> 00:58:39,589 publisher, a journalist acting unlawfully by publishing true information in the 586 00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:46,200 public interest. We need to be aware and we need to raise the alarm, because this 587 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:51,169 isn't just about Julian. The threat is very real and it's very broad. 588 00:58:51,169 --> 00:59:01,259 Herald: Thank you. We have time for one last question and we're going to ask our 589 00:59:01,259 --> 00:59:04,989 signal angels again. Signal Angel: So there was the question 590 00:59:04,989 --> 00:59:10,329 how can we help and support Manning, Assange and Snowden? 591 00:59:10,329 --> 00:59:18,970 Richter: Well, like we just said also, I think it's very important to show solidarity in 592 00:59:18,970 --> 00:59:26,890 different ways by raising your voice. Well, even supporting with donation, it's 593 00:59:26,890 --> 00:59:30,890 always good. It's good for Manning. It's good for everyone. I think Courage 594 00:59:30,890 --> 00:59:36,420 Foundation is someone who's supporting everyone, including Jeremy Hammond and 595 00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:41,450 Chelsea Manning, who are not so much in the focus maybe like Julian, but also for 596 00:59:41,450 --> 00:59:46,739 Julian. I think that his trial will cost - - my God - hundreds of thousands of 597 00:59:46,739 --> 00:59:53,829 pounds. Let's hope that the pound goes down after Brexit. But, OK. No. I 598 00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:59,089 mean, and I think speaking up and like Renata also said, to have the feeling that 599 00:59:59,089 --> 01:00:03,650 we are many and I think exactly this thing that he said. People coming together and 600 01:00:03,650 --> 01:00:11,929 sharing and kind of be brave like "Courage is contagious." is one of my favorite quotes 601 01:00:11,929 --> 01:00:19,059 of him. And so I think I take a stand. Have an attitude and do as much as you can 602 01:00:19,059 --> 01:00:24,499 in your possibilities, which which are not so little, I think. And I think it is 603 01:00:24,499 --> 01:00:28,790 for the good of everyone, not only the names, people who are in danger now, but 604 01:00:28,790 --> 01:00:36,089 for all of our freedom. Colvin: Resist practically. There's a lot to do and 605 01:00:36,089 --> 01:00:41,579 there's a lot of work to go round or as we've mentioned in the talk, organizing in 606 01:00:41,579 --> 01:00:45,829 the communities you're part of. His work is very important here in Germany. To take 607 01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:49,299 an example, we've had parliamentarians coming forward. We've also had the 608 01:00:49,299 --> 01:00:53,409 journalists' union. We've also had collections of lawyers. All of this is 609 01:00:53,409 --> 01:00:55,569 really important. And it makes a difference to the work that's being done 610 01:00:55,569 --> 01:01:00,450 in the U.K. There are lots of different organizations and groups doing work on 611 01:01:00,450 --> 01:01:05,230 this case and it's all really valuable. Contribute as you will, find a group that 612 01:01:05,230 --> 01:01:08,289 you think is doing is doing good work. Either work that you think will make a 613 01:01:08,289 --> 01:01:13,530 difference or that accords with your own ideological perspective and support them. 614 01:01:13,530 --> 01:01:20,760 There's a lot of people doing good work here. I know one of the saving graces of 615 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,869 what has been quite a depressing year is meeting so many people who were doing 616 01:01:24,869 --> 01:01:29,869 important work on this most dire of issues. Avila: And we have a lot of faith on you 617 01:01:29,869 --> 01:01:35,730 as a community, to be honest. We count on you and this community do not leave behind 618 01:01:35,730 --> 01:01:41,939 people belonging here. And I think that if we can see - I think that Julian will be 619 01:01:41,939 --> 01:01:46,640 like incredibly thrilled and Chelsea will be like super happy to know that there's 620 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:52,479 organized efforts to follow this case closely and to have delegations present 621 01:01:52,479 --> 01:01:58,219 during the hearings. And if they know that you are there, even symbolically there, 622 01:01:58,219 --> 01:02:04,479 they will feel so much better because more and more to any community, Snowden, 623 01:02:04,479 --> 01:02:10,529 Chelsea, Julian really love this. Love, admire and count on this community. So 624 01:02:10,529 --> 01:02:15,049 please be there, and find us later, we will explain the more detailed ways to 625 01:02:15,049 --> 01:02:19,839 help. And thank you so much for attending this talk. Like, really, it means a lot. 626 01:02:19,839 --> 01:02:23,809 It means a lot to have a full room. And I know that there's many people watching as 627 01:02:23,809 --> 01:02:30,299 well and will watch this again. Please continue following this case. We will 628 01:02:30,299 --> 01:02:34,999 prepare all the information that you need. But what you - we need you to activate 629 01:02:34,999 --> 01:02:38,639 it and to translate it into action. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. 630 01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:40,115 *applause* 631 01:02:40,115 --> 01:02:42,192 Herald: Thank you for this. 632 01:02:42,192 --> 01:02:45,139 *postroll music* 633 01:02:45,139 --> 01:03:08,000 Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2020. Join, and help us!