1 00:00:00,099 --> 00:00:16,000 *34C3 preroll music* 2 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,280 Herald Angel: And I'm very happy to have 2 speakers here who 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,770 will tell us about their experiences on the Iuventa, the ship that 4 00:00:23,770 --> 00:00:30,330 was seized in august this year. Kathrin has been doing search and rescue 5 00:00:30,330 --> 00:00:37,460 operations in the mediteranean since 2 years, and she was on board when the boat 6 00:00:37,460 --> 00:00:43,620 was seized, when the Iuventa was seized, and she was even Head of Staff. Hendrik 7 00:00:43,620 --> 00:00:48,329 has also been active in such a rescue operation as a RHIB 8 00:00:48,329 --> 00:00:50,499 *chuckles* Voice-over: driver 9 00:00:50,499 --> 00:00:55,969 Herald Angel: RHIBer, which is a kind of special function, and he has also been 10 00:00:55,969 --> 00:01:02,589 doing this for 2 years approximately, for different NGOs. And I am very happy that 11 00:01:02,589 --> 00:01:09,880 they are here and can tell us about what happend on the Iuventa. So, we have 12 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:18,580 translation to German on the Mumble that is in the back now, and yeah, please 13 00:01:18,580 --> 00:01:22,409 welcome them to the big applause, thank you. 14 00:01:22,409 --> 00:01:30,540 *applause* Hendrik: Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the 15 00:01:30,540 --> 00:01:39,229 introduction. Hello everybody. Welcome to the talk "The Seizure of the Iuventa". We 16 00:01:39,229 --> 00:01:44,850 are glad that a few people made it here. When we actually planned for the talk we 17 00:01:44,860 --> 00:01:48,839 were planning for one hour, so we put a lot of content in the description and it 18 00:01:48,839 --> 00:01:54,370 was only two weeks ago that we learned we only have half an hour so we were really 19 00:01:54,370 --> 00:01:59,799 pressed to focus a bit. So. Yeah what I will do is I will give you a quick 20 00:01:59,799 --> 00:02:04,609 introduction into the area we operate in which is the central Mediterranean. I will 21 00:02:04,609 --> 00:02:10,840 tell you what we do there. And after that Kathrin will talk about the actual seizure 22 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,510 of the Iuventa. So this is Kathrin, I'm Hendrik obviously, I think you already 23 00:02:14,510 --> 00:02:22,930 noticed that. So yeah I like maps. So I put this map in the slides. So, migration 24 00:02:22,930 --> 00:02:29,840 is happening we all know that. And people are trying to reach Europe for, yeah in 25 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,980 search of a better and safer life. So the reasons why they are fleeing are very 26 00:02:33,980 --> 00:02:40,200 different. There are war, violence, discrimination, prosecution, or poverty. 27 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:46,310 They all have their reasons to leave their homes. So what we see here is the routes 28 00:02:46,310 --> 00:02:50,140 these refugees take are constantly changing and that is due to changing 29 00:02:50,140 --> 00:02:56,970 political circumstances. We have different routes through the Mediterranean. For a 30 00:02:56,970 --> 00:03:01,580 while now we have the eastern route that was quite famous two years ago when a lot 31 00:03:01,580 --> 00:03:05,720 of people tried to cross the Mediterranean from Turkey to Greece. That was basically 32 00:03:02,980 --> 00:03:11,660 closed. We had the western route like 10, 15 years ago. A lot of people tried to 33 00:03:11,660 --> 00:03:17,920 cross it from Morocco to Spain or to the Canary Islands. And at the moment we 34 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,570 mainly are focusing on the central Mediterranean route, that is where all the 35 00:03:21,570 --> 00:03:25,820 migration, or most of the migration is happening. People are trying to cross 36 00:03:25,820 --> 00:03:32,720 mainly from Libya, which is the brown spot at the bottom, to Italy. In the last 37 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,920 couple of months there also were people trying to cross from Tunisia, but still 38 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:45,340 the main part of the migration is happening through Libya. So to give you a 39 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:49,980 better understanding about what we are talking here, we draw you a map with some 40 00:03:49,980 --> 00:03:55,320 distances on it. The distances are given in nautical miles. That is the unit we use 41 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:02,531 at sea. Just to give you an example: Under perfect conditions, a refugee boat that 42 00:04:02,531 --> 00:04:08,920 would leave Libya would take at least 3 days to Lampedusa, more than 4 days to 43 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,590 Malta, and more than 5,5 days to Sicily. That would be under perfect conditions 44 00:04:13,590 --> 00:04:18,580 that never exist. There are always waves. There is the wind, the boats often don't 45 00:04:18,580 --> 00:04:25,740 have a compass so they don't know where to go. So in fact the only boat we know of 46 00:04:25,740 --> 00:04:32,380 that really made it to Malta was underway for 8 days. So the distances these people 47 00:04:32,380 --> 00:04:42,830 have to cross, have to cover, are quite long. So the classic boats we encounter on 48 00:04:42,830 --> 00:04:48,030 that route, these type of boats, below you see a wooden boat, these wooden boats have 49 00:04:48,030 --> 00:04:57,320 really different sizes. They take from 100 up to 1000 people. Usually 500 people with 50 00:04:53,830 --> 00:05:04,670 plus minus 100, but their fit up to 1000 people in them. And on the upper part you 51 00:05:04,670 --> 00:05:11,590 see the typical boat that was used until last summer. That is the rubber boat. 120 52 00:05:11,590 --> 00:05:17,620 to 150 people usually fit in there. But we also encountered boats with 180 people in 53 00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:27,820 them. These conditions like these boats and the long distance and these not 54 00:05:27,820 --> 00:05:32,110 seaworthy boats of course make this route the most dangerous route in the world. So 55 00:05:32,110 --> 00:05:37,290 the most people trying to cross borders are dying in the Mediterranean. You see 56 00:05:37,290 --> 00:05:42,890 this statistics, they are from the Missing Migrants Project. They only collect the 57 00:05:42,890 --> 00:05:48,150 data off the known deaths. These are no absolute numbers, it's just a relation. So 58 00:05:48,150 --> 00:05:54,550 the big dark blue part is the relation of the people dying in the Mediterranean 59 00:05:54,560 --> 00:06:00,110 related to the rest of the world. So I think you all see that the Mediterranean 60 00:06:00,110 --> 00:06:04,580 is really really a dangerous route to take. But still people are forced to take, 61 00:06:04,580 --> 00:06:11,430 to use this route because Europe and their allies are basically closing off the 62 00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:18,340 shorter and safer routes. So the international law states a duty to rescue 63 00:06:18,340 --> 00:06:25,840 people in distress. We always have acted and complied with these laws of the sea 64 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:31,610 and these international laws and we are fulfilling a duty that usually is up to 65 00:06:31,610 --> 00:06:35,160 the European Union but they are not willing to do that. So the NGOs had to 66 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:42,740 step in to rescue these people. So the region we are operating in ... 67 00:06:42,740 --> 00:06:53,900 *applause* Thanks. The region we are operating in is 68 00:06:53,900 --> 00:07:03,720 also regulated by international laws. You have Libya there of course the Libyan law 69 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,439 applies as well as in the C Zone on up to the 12 mile line, which is the red line 70 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:13,410 you see there. This is also Libyan territorial waters. And from the 12th mile 71 00:07:13,410 --> 00:07:19,150 on it's basically international waters. We have the so-called contiguous zone up to 72 00:07:19,150 --> 00:07:25,149 24 miles, where the Libyan authorities have certain law enforcement rights, but 73 00:07:25,149 --> 00:07:30,570 it still is international waters. So the blue shape you see is the Search and 74 00:07:30,570 --> 00:07:35,959 Rescue Area where we find most of the boats. And that is basically where we 75 00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:43,580 operate up to the 12 mile line, we don't cross the 12 mile line usually. So to be 76 00:07:43,580 --> 00:07:50,290 able to conduct effective operations we need of course to buy a ship, because 77 00:07:50,290 --> 00:07:55,830 without a ship you cannot go there. So the Iuventa was bought and the Iuventa was 78 00:07:55,830 --> 00:08:01,930 sent to the area where most boats get in distress. That means we are doing 79 00:08:01,930 --> 00:08:07,220 proactive search and rescue. Proactive in this case means we go there before boats 80 00:08:07,220 --> 00:08:13,539 get in distress and actively search for them. That is because ships move slowly so 81 00:08:13,539 --> 00:08:15,500 we cannot wait on Malta until ships get 82 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:17,660 in distress, until boats get in distress 83 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:24,290 because it would take us 24 hours to get there. So for us it is important to be 84 00:08:24,290 --> 00:08:31,360 there when the people depart from shore, because these boats you saw the pictures 85 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,698 on the slides before they are immediately a distress case, as soon as they are in 86 00:08:35,698 --> 00:08:39,989 the open sea, there's no discussion about that. As soon as one of these overcrowded 87 00:08:39,989 --> 00:08:45,699 boats is in the open sea they are a distress case. They don't have to sink to 88 00:08:45,699 --> 00:08:51,519 be a distress case. So we need to go there before they depart to be able to help 89 00:08:48,509 --> 00:08:56,570 immediately. The Iuventa is a very small ship, you can see that it's only 33 metres 90 00:08:56,570 --> 00:09:02,410 long. There's not much people fitting on there and for transfer, it usually can 91 00:09:02,410 --> 00:09:08,969 take only the crew. So we act as a first response unit. When we find the boats in 92 00:09:08,969 --> 00:09:14,380 distress, we secure them with life jackets and life rafts. So we supply lifejackets 93 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:19,010 to the people on the boat and, if necessary, bring out life rafts and 94 00:09:19,010 --> 00:09:24,120 evacuate people on the life rafts. And then call for bigger ships that transfer 95 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:30,220 them to Italy. You can see one of the bigger ships here. It's the Vost Prudence. 96 00:09:30,220 --> 00:09:35,549 It was used by MSF, it was chartered basically, and this is a way bigger ship 97 00:09:35,549 --> 00:09:41,059 and it can take way more people and it can bring them safely to Italy. So these 98 00:09:41,059 --> 00:09:46,989 transfers to these big ships we always do in close cooperation with the Maritime 99 00:09:46,989 --> 00:09:53,169 Rescue Coordination Center in Rome, the so-called MRCC. The MRCC is responsible 100 00:09:53,169 --> 00:09:59,389 for distress cases in that area. They are there to coordinate the rescue 101 00:09:59,389 --> 00:10:05,230 operations and they are always ordering the transfer of the migrants. So whenever 102 00:10:05,230 --> 00:10:09,700 we transferred migrants to one of these big ships, the MRCC ordered us to do so, 103 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:16,269 we never did that on our own. But you have to keep in mind: The MRCC is not an agency 104 00:10:16,269 --> 00:10:21,509 that is acting independently. It basically is a subordinate of the Interior Ministry 105 00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:28,559 in Italy, so it is bound by instructions to the Interior Ministry. You have to keep 106 00:10:25,418 --> 00:10:35,369 that in mind for later when Kathrin is telling you something. As I already said: 107 00:10:35,369 --> 00:10:39,529 The Iuventa is not suited to transport people to a place of safety. It is only 108 00:10:39,529 --> 00:10:46,969 there to secure them. That was always clearly communicated with the MRCC and we 109 00:10:46,969 --> 00:10:51,760 always acted as a first responder, and secured the situation. That was our job. 110 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:57,750 That is what we are good at. So this is how we operated from the beginning, and 111 00:10:57,750 --> 00:11:02,329 this is how we operated on another NGO vessel I've been in 2016, the Minden. It 112 00:11:02,329 --> 00:11:06,030 was the same case: We were there as a first responder, we secured the people, 113 00:11:06,030 --> 00:11:10,260 transferred them to bigger vessels, they then brought them to Italy. This is also 114 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:15,830 how all the other NGOs working there worked, like CI Sea-Watch, MSF, Safe the 115 00:11:15,830 --> 00:11:19,800 Children, Moas Mission, Lifeline, and all the other NGOs working there. We're not 116 00:11:19,810 --> 00:11:27,299 alone there. And it was a successful, proven concept. So just to tell it once 117 00:11:27,299 --> 00:11:31,399 more: The concept is we have smaller boats, staying there, securing the people, 118 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:35,409 and once they are secured we call for bigger ships, call for help, transfer them 119 00:11:35,409 --> 00:11:39,539 to these bigger ships, and they then bring them to a place of safety, which usually 120 00:11:39,539 --> 00:11:47,779 is Italy. But in May 2017 suddenly some things started to change for the Iuventa. 121 00:11:47,779 --> 00:11:51,390 Kathrin: Thank you. 122 00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:59,210 One thing I may want to emphasize again is that everything we did was always 123 00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:04,850 under the coordination of the Rescue Coordination Center in Rome in Italy and 124 00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:11,230 up until then we really had a good working relationship with them. We were conducting 125 00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:17,359 successful and very efficient search operations, rescue operations. Maybe a 126 00:12:17,359 --> 00:12:24,289 little bit too efficient. So we can say a chain of unusual events started in May 127 00:12:24,289 --> 00:12:30,979 this year. And one situation I want to talk about now is when we received 128 00:12:30,979 --> 00:12:36,859 distress calls over the radio about numerous migrant boats in distress in an 129 00:12:36,859 --> 00:12:41,379 area we were in. And the other ships in vicinity who had found those boats, they 130 00:12:41,379 --> 00:12:49,419 called us and asked for our assistance to rescue these people, and up until that not 131 00:12:49,419 --> 00:12:56,289 an unusual situation. However all of a sudden we were requested by the MRCC, the 132 00:12:56,289 --> 00:13:01,449 coordination center in Rome, to withdraw to leave the Search and Rescue Zone 133 00:13:01,449 --> 00:13:09,689 immediately and to go to Lampedusa. So to make that clear: We were ordered to ignore 134 00:13:09,689 --> 00:13:18,009 distress calls of people at imminent, who were at imminent threat of their life and 135 00:13:18,009 --> 00:13:24,530 go away. This has never happened before until then. So as you can imagine we were 136 00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:35,380 torn back and forth whether we should actually do that, or not. We were somewhat 137 00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:41,139 obliged to follow their instructions but it did mean obviously that we had to leave 138 00:13:41,139 --> 00:13:47,919 people on these boats in distress behind. And I can remember the persistent efforts 139 00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:51,729 that day we were trying to make, and also others were trying to make, to keep the 140 00:13:51,729 --> 00:13:58,660 Iuventa in the SAR Zone for that, for that situation. However, it did not work out, 141 00:13:58,660 --> 00:14:07,379 they continued insisting. And finally we had to give in, and proceed to Lampedusa. 142 00:14:07,379 --> 00:14:11,210 Unfortunately, later we learned that those two days when the Iuventa was absent, 143 00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:19,329 which turned into one of the most busiest rescue periods we had seen in 2017. Many 144 00:14:19,329 --> 00:14:27,789 hundred people lost their lives and the remaining capacities in the SAR Zone were 145 00:14:27,789 --> 00:14:38,899 just way beyond their capacities. So this very procedure continued twice: Once more 146 00:14:38,899 --> 00:14:45,090 in May, and another time in June. And again: Back then we were absolutely in the 147 00:14:45,090 --> 00:14:50,720 dark as to what could possibly be the motivation behind such instructions and we 148 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,890 realized something had changed, the good working relationship with the MRCC for 149 00:14:55,890 --> 00:15:00,800 some reason wasn't that good anymore. But we did not understand what was going on, 150 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:09,389 why are they behaving like that. And I mean we have to realise that: This is an 151 00:15:09,389 --> 00:15:16,739 authority whose duty it is to coordinate rescues at sea, and to save people's lives 152 00:15:16,739 --> 00:15:23,869 at sea. And they are withdrawing and actively reducing Search and Rescue ships 153 00:15:23,869 --> 00:15:30,520 from where and when they're needed most. We were utterly astonished, not to say, 154 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:38,569 speechless. And we could imagine various scenarios until then. Of course we were 155 00:15:38,569 --> 00:15:44,000 quite aware that the situation they were dealing with is really, I mean, not easy 156 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:49,110 to deal with. So we were a lot of the times putting it down to "Hey, okay, 157 00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:53,060 they're probably really overwhelmed with dealing all these increasingly complicated 158 00:15:53,070 --> 00:15:57,380 rescues in the Mediterranean, and eventually that leading to really poor 159 00:15:57,380 --> 00:16:06,230 decision making". However such incidents kept occuring. And at the end of July the 160 00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:11,879 Italian coast guard transferred 2 migrants on board of the Iuventa. And they had 161 00:16:11,879 --> 00:16:17,199 found them in a really small rubber boat. They had left from Tripoli and they 162 00:16:17,199 --> 00:16:21,610 requested us to take them on board. So again that was a rather unusual event, 163 00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:25,690 never happened before, as we learned from Hendrik before. The boats are usually a 164 00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:29,939 little bit bigger than three metres and there are usually a few more people than 165 00:16:29,939 --> 00:16:35,149 two on there. Yet, you know, what if what's happening out there is actually 166 00:16:35,149 --> 00:16:41,139 normal. So yes we took those 2 people on board and we accommodated our guests for 167 00:16:41,139 --> 00:16:47,370 two days before we actually got any instructions as to how to continue, and we 168 00:16:47,370 --> 00:16:51,610 were kind of almost expecting that we had to proceed to Lampedusa with our two 169 00:16:51,610 --> 00:17:01,160 guests. So on the way to Lampedusa, approximately half way, we received 170 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:08,959 another distress call from Rome, about a boat that had apparently left in Tunesia 171 00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:15,519 in the early morning. And what was really interesting that day was that they gave us 172 00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:20,399 super precise instructions as to how to perform a search pattern. A search pattern 173 00:17:20,399 --> 00:17:27,039 is like the organized way of performing a search at sea with the coordinates and 174 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:32,480 distances to speeds you go, so they were in total control of what we did and how we 175 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,449 did it, and they were making sure continuously that we are following their 176 00:17:36,449 --> 00:17:41,320 plan. Something never happened before because usually they were really not 177 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:48,050 interested in how we performed the search, as long as we found the boats, obviously. 178 00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:55,770 While they were making us perform a search pattern that would have taken us three 179 00:17:55,770 --> 00:18:03,170 days to complete, the way they ordered us to do it, they neither gave us an official 180 00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:09,439 distress notification, nor an official search and rescue case number, both of 181 00:18:09,439 --> 00:18:19,540 which would be the usual procedure. And probably worth by adding is that also the 182 00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:25,109 Iuventa was the only ship involved in that search that day, all the other ships were 183 00:18:25,109 --> 00:18:29,720 just not a few between Tunisia and Lampedusa had not been, obviously, not 184 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:35,030 been informed. Another private rescue ship that was, that happened to be in the area 185 00:18:35,030 --> 00:18:41,890 was initially declined by the MRCC to support us. Then I kept insisting like: 186 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:46,050 "Hey guys, we cannot possibly do this on our own". 187 00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:55,010 And so eventually they allowed them to join into the search. Very interesting 188 00:18:55,010 --> 00:18:58,809 also is that we requested the support of a surveillance plane, 189 00:18:58,809 --> 00:19:01,900 of a private surveillance plane by Sea-Watch, the Moon Bird, 190 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:09,280 and it was completely rejected and declined from morning till evening that 191 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:17,639 day. So Moon Bird never left the ground in Malta that day. And yet believe it or not: 192 00:19:17,639 --> 00:19:24,840 We were still not fully convinced that the MRCC's decisions are actually really 193 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,429 solely driven by the interests of the Ministry of Interior in Italy. 194 00:19:30,429 --> 00:19:36,900 We were still somewhat in denial, thinking that, you know, something like law 195 00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:42,230 enforcement would be beyond their scope, really. And so our paranoia level had 196 00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:48,480 simply just not, could not grasp yet the dimension of where this would take us. 197 00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:55,079 Until the very moment when we reached Italian territorial waters close to 198 00:19:55,079 --> 00:20:00,930 Lampedusa, and 4 Coast Guard ships escorted us with blue lights into the 199 00:20:00,930 --> 00:20:09,729 harbor of Lampedusa. And the Iuventa was searched and seized on August 2nd. So, 200 00:20:09,729 --> 00:20:15,439 slowly it was dribbling, all these events beforehand started to make sense, fell 201 00:20:15,439 --> 00:20:22,630 into place. And in fact, there are a lot of facts now, in hindsight that were, you 202 00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:27,329 know, we can, that we can put in order, and we know that the warrants for the 203 00:20:27,329 --> 00:20:32,329 search, as well as for the seizure, had both been signed one day before we 204 00:20:32,329 --> 00:20:38,880 actually came to Lampedusa. And also the complete confiscation order of the Iuventa 205 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:48,330 had been leaked to the media in advance so they could they could be there, they could 206 00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:52,550 receive us in the middle of the night. They were waiting for us at the peer, the 207 00:20:52,550 --> 00:20:59,769 Italian press. And, you know, then you think: "Okay, that search pattern we did. 208 00:20:59,769 --> 00:21:03,919 What was that about? Were they buying time to fly in all these police officers that 209 00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:12,320 ended up on our ship?" But one thing we know for sure now is that the scenario I 210 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,059 talked about before when they withdrew the Iuventa from distress calls that day in 211 00:21:18,059 --> 00:21:25,130 May, there was actually a price they accepted to pay to install a bug on the 212 00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:33,710 bridge of the Iuventa that day. Also when they continuously ordered the Iuventa back 213 00:21:33,710 --> 00:21:37,569 to Lampedusa, I mean, now that kind of starts making sense as well if you 214 00:21:37,569 --> 00:21:49,419 consider that the capacity of a SD card may not be that big over such a long time. 215 00:21:49,419 --> 00:21:55,819 Roundabout the same time when the bug was installed on the bridge of the Iuventa 216 00:21:55,829 --> 00:22:02,490 there were also 2..., there was also 1 undercover cop placed on another private 217 00:22:02,490 --> 00:22:06,989 rescue ship and he later produced forged evidence to incriminate the crew of the 218 00:22:06,989 --> 00:22:13,869 Iuventa. So in fact, the investigation, we then learned, of the Iuventa crew by the 219 00:22:13,869 --> 00:22:21,530 Italian authorities was started as early as September 2016 (last year) when two 220 00:22:21,530 --> 00:22:27,920 security officers on board of another vessel, they were both former cops, had 221 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:34,559 proactively informed not only special police forces dealing with organized crime 222 00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:40,230 in Sicily, but also the Italian foreign intelligence service and a politician of 223 00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:46,169 the Lega Nord in Italy, and although their testimonies were somewhat contradictory 224 00:22:46,169 --> 00:22:51,750 and they were reporting strange behavior of the Iuventa, they actually did prompt a 225 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:57,909 large scale investigation. So the accusations that are meant to justify the 226 00:22:57,909 --> 00:23:05,490 seizure of the ship include: Facilitation of illegal immigration, Collusion with 227 00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:13,450 human traffickers, and possession of firearms. However, until this day, there 228 00:23:13,450 --> 00:23:17,749 are no criminal charges against any individual crewmembers, nor against the 229 00:23:17,749 --> 00:23:25,150 organization, which I guess works in their favor as well because they have reached 230 00:23:25,150 --> 00:23:30,860 what they wanted, they bought time, they have one ship less in the Search and 231 00:23:30,860 --> 00:23:36,089 Rescue area at the moment. And the moment they actually get a trial they start 232 00:23:36,089 --> 00:23:43,800 having to produce real evidence, which may be trouble for them. So the seizure of the 233 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,790 Iuventa they called a so-called 'Preventive Measure', and that was only 234 00:23:48,790 --> 00:23:56,009 enabled by Anti-Mafia laws, which by the way were also used against..., for similar 235 00:23:56,009 --> 00:24:05,660 cases like the Capandamur in 2005 and Tunisian fishers in 2007, both of which 236 00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:12,289 cases the charges had to be dropped after some years. Still the damage was done. So 237 00:24:12,289 --> 00:24:18,639 we have of course appealed the seizure, in the meantime, at the court in Trapani, 238 00:24:18,639 --> 00:24:22,780 but, as we expected, that was rejected and has been taken to the next level at the 239 00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:30,439 Supreme Court in Rome. And yeah, we are now waiting for them to decide whether 240 00:24:30,439 --> 00:24:35,940 actually the seizure of the Iuventa was legal or not. 241 00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:40,950 Hendrik: What we had to learn in the aftermath was that the seizure of the 242 00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:46,880 Iuventa was only a small part in a way bigger political fight. What the EU 243 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,759 actually wants to do is they want to shut down the central Mediterranean route at 244 00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:55,360 all costs, and what they also want to prevent is pictures of drowning people. 245 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:59,360 And instead of sending ships there to rescue these people, what they want to do 246 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:04,090 is they want to get rid of the witnesses that document how the people drown and 247 00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:10,080 actually save them. So they are trying to stop the NGOs from working there. 248 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,159 *applause* *boo* 249 00:25:14,159 --> 00:25:19,520 So what we learned is that the fight for the Iuventa we are fighting at the moment 250 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,770 is not a legal fight but a political fight, and we are waging that fight 251 00:25:23,770 --> 00:25:29,070 together with a lot of other NGO that are active there in the central Mediterranean. 252 00:25:29,070 --> 00:25:33,059 So for us of course the seizure of the Iuventa was a drawback. We don't have a 253 00:25:33,059 --> 00:25:37,950 ship anymore which with which we can operate. But still you can see also with 254 00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:42,969 constant pressure, sometimes there are positive surprises. For example in 255 00:25:42,969 --> 00:25:48,580 December the United Nations made an evacuation flight for migrants from Libya 256 00:25:48,580 --> 00:25:54,500 directly to Europe. And that of course was only possible because of the constant 257 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:58,899 media work a lot of NGOs did so that the European Union had to react and allow 258 00:25:58,899 --> 00:26:05,220 that. So what this also shows us is that with patience and continuous struggle it 259 00:26:05,220 --> 00:26:08,919 still is possible to drill small holes into the walls of Fortress Europe. 260 00:26:09,899 --> 00:26:12,599 Kathrin: Yes, continue that fight! Thank you. 261 00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:13,619 Hendrik: Thanks. 262 00:26:13,619 --> 00:26:34,069 *applause* *cheer* 263 00:26:34,069 --> 00:26:44,810 Herald Angel: Breathtaking. Thank you so much. So, do we have questions? We have 264 00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:54,840 some microphones in the Saal, so you can just go there, and place yourself. Okay, I 265 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,880 think I will start with number 6. Microphone No. 6: Yes, hello, thank you 266 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,980 for the good work. You mentioned a charge of firearms on the ship. Were there any? 267 00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:11,930 Kathrin: Good question. No, they have not found any evidence at all during the 268 00:27:11,930 --> 00:27:18,769 search, and we also later learned that they had to include this section into the 269 00:27:18,769 --> 00:27:23,600 accusation to actually justify the seizure at all, because those are the two 270 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:31,290 accusations whould've not been strong enough to justify the seizure. 271 00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:37,020 Herald Angel: Okay, microphone 1 please. Microphone 1: Thank for the talk. 3 quick 272 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:41,120 questions: How much did the Iuventa cost? How much would it cost to buy a new ship? 273 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:47,340 And is this feasible? *laughter* 274 00:27:47,340 --> 00:27:51,699 Hendrik: I actually have no idea much that ship cost, do you know that? 275 00:27:51,699 --> 00:27:58,750 Kathrin: I roughly know how much a ship in that size would cost now, at a similar 276 00:27:58,750 --> 00:28:09,550 age. We are probably looking at between 180.000 to 250.000 Euro. And feasible or 277 00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:15,490 not, from an economic point of view probably doable, yes, I mean, people have 278 00:28:15,490 --> 00:28:20,139 done it before, and it's probably possible to do it again. From a political point of 279 00:28:20,139 --> 00:28:28,690 view it's certainly debateable whether..., how to proceed and what the right action 280 00:28:28,690 --> 00:28:33,810 is at this point. 281 00:28:33,810 --> 00:28:38,720 Herald Angel: Okay, we have a Signal, we have a question from the Internet, please. 282 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,630 Signal Angel: Is what happened to your ship unique, or are there other ships that 283 00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:45,410 have been seized? 284 00:28:45,410 --> 00:28:48,052 Kathrin: Can... I didn't understand the question. 285 00:28:48,052 --> 00:28:52,429 Hendrik: Actually it's... The seizure is unique but there have been other ships 286 00:28:52,429 --> 00:29:00,890 that have been searched by the cops like from Save the Children and MSF. 287 00:29:00,890 --> 00:29:05,360 Herald Angel: Okay, number 1 please. Kathrin: Something to the answer of that 288 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:11,569 question: We... In our file we certainly also know that while they are 289 00:29:11,569 --> 00:29:17,980 investigating against the Iuventa crew, they have tapped phones of numberous 290 00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:23,620 people that also work for all the other NGOs, mainly in Italy, so we know that 291 00:29:23,620 --> 00:29:31,029 this is going over and beyond what happened to us, but we were just a, like a 292 00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:37,420 digestible bite, to put it that way. Herald Angel: What a bite. Okay, number 1 293 00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:42,230 please. Microphone 1: Let's say I've got a half a 294 00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:47,450 year of free time on hand... where do I sign up? 295 00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:53,030 *laughter* *applause* 296 00:29:53,030 --> 00:29:57,200 Hendrik: Sounds great, I can invite you to come to the assembly afterwards. We have 297 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,009 an "Just humans" assembly in hall 2 where a lot of these NGOs I mentioned in the 298 00:30:01,009 --> 00:30:06,469 talk actually are, so just come and talk to us, and find us there. 299 00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:12,320 Herald Angel: Okay, one last question, I hope it's a short question because we just 300 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,710 got 2 more minutes. Microphone: Thanks for the talk, and 301 00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:22,379 thanks for the work you do. One question: The bug, was it actually legal? Was it a 302 00:30:22,379 --> 00:30:28,070 legal operation that they did that? And how do you know that there is a bug, that 303 00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:31,210 there have been a bug? Kathrin: We know that there is a bug 304 00:30:31,210 --> 00:30:36,210 because that was a... it's part of the investigation file that we were handed 305 00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:44,129 over, part of the 500 pages investigation file. We know the exact date and time, 306 00:30:44,129 --> 00:30:48,169 when the bug has been installed, and roundabout where, namely on the bridge of 307 00:30:48,169 --> 00:30:53,419 the Iuventa. Whether or not that action was legal, because we are looking at 308 00:30:53,419 --> 00:31:01,880 Italien authorities, planting a bug on a ship under Dutch flag, bugging people in 309 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:09,370 interational waters, mostly from German decent. Until today we have not got a 310 00:31:09,370 --> 00:31:17,789 clear answer to that question, we are still asking a number of lawyers around 311 00:31:17,789 --> 00:31:24,310 Europe and it's probably a situation that doesn't happen too often. Also you're 312 00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:27,789 warmly invited to come around to our assembly and we can talk about that a 313 00:31:27,789 --> 00:31:31,799 little bit more, because that's one of the most interesting and pressing questions we 314 00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:37,069 have as well. Herald Angel: Okay. So, like the two said: 315 00:31:37,069 --> 00:31:41,470 Assembly Hall 2, just Humans, is the space where you can meet them, where you can ask 316 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:44,990 more questions. And thank you once again! 317 00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:50,010 *applause and cheer* 318 00:31:50,010 --> 00:31:52,009 Kathrin: Thanks for having us! 319 00:31:52,009 --> 00:31:56,829 *34c3 postroll music* 320 00:31:56,829 --> 00:32:14,000 subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2018. Join, and help us!