0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/368 Thanks! 1 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:12,469 OK, so the return of the 2 00:00:12,470 --> 00:00:15,559 invisible committee, apparently 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,259 it's not as invisible 4 00:00:18,260 --> 00:00:20,809 as you might think, so 5 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:22,579 please set the stage with a huge 6 00:00:22,580 --> 00:00:23,580 applause. 7 00:00:31,140 --> 00:00:33,229 All right, go to Abernathy's in 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,209 English, passion of mine, 9 00:00:38,190 --> 00:00:39,190 so I was speaking English. 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:41,339 All right. 11 00:00:41,340 --> 00:00:43,379 First of all, I'm I'm kind of sorry in 12 00:00:43,380 --> 00:00:45,089 advance because my my speech is kind of 13 00:00:45,090 --> 00:00:46,679 long and somehow complicated. 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,479 And the fact that I have to give it in in 15 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,549 English gives me a little room for 16 00:00:50,550 --> 00:00:52,859 improvization. So I will probably have to 17 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:54,959 read a lot of the 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,249 notes that I've taken. 19 00:00:57,990 --> 00:01:00,239 So to start, I would like to 20 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,759 to to apologize for the 21 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,619 title and of speech and 22 00:01:05,620 --> 00:01:07,289 the the speakers. 23 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:09,419 Actually, we just wanted to have 24 00:01:09,420 --> 00:01:11,549 an invisible committee for Google 25 00:01:11,550 --> 00:01:13,889 to our mine to appear somewhere so that 26 00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:15,959 our potential allies and 27 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,149 friends can spread it out 28 00:01:18,150 --> 00:01:20,489 and figure out what this 29 00:01:20,490 --> 00:01:21,490 all will be about. 30 00:01:23,610 --> 00:01:26,129 So to start, I would clarify 31 00:01:26,130 --> 00:01:27,780 the place from where I speak. 32 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,249 It has probably no, not that much 33 00:01:32,250 --> 00:01:33,809 interest. Besides, for the German 34 00:01:33,810 --> 00:01:35,879 undercover police will probably 35 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,189 be here texting French undercover 36 00:01:38,190 --> 00:01:39,190 police. 37 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,619 So I I'm part of 38 00:01:43,620 --> 00:01:45,419 some people who've been called by the 39 00:01:45,420 --> 00:01:46,579 media to Charnock nine. 40 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:50,039 Basically, that's a story I will make 41 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:50,549 really short. 42 00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:51,989 But just so that you understand that the 43 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:54,239 reason why it makes sense to speak here, 44 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,649 six years ago we got arrested on some 45 00:01:56,650 --> 00:01:58,769 tourist charges in France 46 00:02:00,420 --> 00:02:02,339 and basically the French police accused 47 00:02:02,340 --> 00:02:04,289 us of many, many, many different things 48 00:02:04,290 --> 00:02:06,749 from from organizing riots, 49 00:02:06,750 --> 00:02:07,750 from 50 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,309 being a recruitment center in New York, 51 00:02:11,310 --> 00:02:13,709 and for sabotaging a train 52 00:02:13,710 --> 00:02:16,169 against nuclear transport and 53 00:02:16,170 --> 00:02:18,399 all kinds of things, which most of 54 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:19,680 us were just not true. 55 00:02:22,050 --> 00:02:24,149 And basically, this 56 00:02:24,150 --> 00:02:26,459 is our main concern, whether we will 57 00:02:26,460 --> 00:02:28,529 belong to some kind of international 58 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:30,719 revolutionary conspiracies that will just 59 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,519 be willing to destroy Western 60 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,520 civilization. 61 00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:36,749 But they also accused us of 62 00:02:36,750 --> 00:02:38,329 one thing that is actually important, 63 00:02:38,330 --> 00:02:40,589 that the reason why why somehow 64 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:42,449 we can we can speak here is that they 65 00:02:42,450 --> 00:02:44,789 accused us of having written the book, 66 00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:46,799 which is called In English The Coming 67 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:47,800 Insurrection. 68 00:02:50,250 --> 00:02:52,349 This book became some kind of bestseller 69 00:02:52,350 --> 00:02:54,239 in France because of the big media 70 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,459 things. It was around the arrest 71 00:02:56,460 --> 00:02:58,739 and also somehow in the US when a 72 00:02:58,740 --> 00:03:01,079 Fox News, Glenn Beck, just managed 73 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,839 to try to read it and 74 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,299 figured out that it was the biggest 75 00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:07,559 threat to American 76 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:10,470 peace at that moment. 77 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:12,880 And so 78 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:15,919 so here's the point. 79 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:19,559 Of course, I'm not, of course, speaking 80 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,109 on behalf of the committee, 81 00:03:22,110 --> 00:03:24,359 I'm neither a member, representant 82 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,429 or whatever for 83 00:03:26,430 --> 00:03:27,989 the very fact that the invisible 84 00:03:27,990 --> 00:03:29,969 committee is is a plane on which to try 85 00:03:29,970 --> 00:03:32,079 to think strategically and politically 86 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,249 of the current situation, 87 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:37,289 just like somehow anonymous will will be 88 00:03:37,290 --> 00:03:39,599 some plane for for tactical and strategic 89 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,699 or type of types of 90 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:42,700 attack. 91 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:45,659 So for that matter, there is no inside or 92 00:03:45,660 --> 00:03:48,029 outside, no membership nor nor 93 00:03:48,030 --> 00:03:49,859 authorship. It belongs to no one. 94 00:03:49,860 --> 00:03:51,599 And everyone just like Anonymous, for 95 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:52,600 instance. 96 00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:55,529 So the question is why it is me basically 97 00:03:55,530 --> 00:03:57,599 coming to speak it just because there's 98 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,789 this funny, funny thing where 99 00:03:59,790 --> 00:04:01,649 the police in France have tried really 100 00:04:01,650 --> 00:04:03,749 hard for years to, uh, to 101 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:05,249 to prove that we would have written this 102 00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:06,359 book. 103 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,489 And somehow they fail so much that we can 104 00:04:08,490 --> 00:04:10,289 somehow assume to travel the world and 105 00:04:10,290 --> 00:04:12,449 just discuss the content of it just 106 00:04:12,450 --> 00:04:13,580 as good readers of it. 107 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,199 And so then to the question of why 108 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,639 coming here to the CCC to speak 109 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,059 up, the reason is, 110 00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:26,849 is actually pretty simple. 111 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:28,259 The answer is, is Jeremy. 112 00:04:28,260 --> 00:04:29,279 Jeremy Hammond 113 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:32,519 will rot in jail right now, as 114 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,170 I guess most of you know. 115 00:04:36,030 --> 00:04:38,009 And to my delegates, this speech, 116 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,160 of course, when. 117 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:47,939 And actually, there's a there's a new 118 00:04:47,940 --> 00:04:49,439 book by the Invisible Committee, which is 119 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,299 called To Our Friends, which is published 120 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:53,279 in for a few weeks and was going to be 121 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:55,469 publishing in Germany and in 122 00:04:55,470 --> 00:04:56,639 the US soon. 123 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,739 And there's a whole paragraph 124 00:04:58,740 --> 00:05:01,289 in it about, let's say the 125 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:03,579 hackers have been radical 126 00:05:03,580 --> 00:05:04,589 movement. 127 00:05:04,590 --> 00:05:06,729 And it was stopped at some kind of 128 00:05:06,730 --> 00:05:08,999 answer to to, uh, to Jeremy 129 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,999 Hammond acts. 130 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,789 Basically, when Stratfor was hacked, 131 00:05:14,790 --> 00:05:17,039 a website was defaced and one could 132 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,409 read the coming insurrection 133 00:05:19,410 --> 00:05:21,809 on the scroll roll instead 134 00:05:21,810 --> 00:05:23,999 of their of their index. 135 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,319 And so we interpret it that 136 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,559 this gesture as some sort of call, as 137 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,509 an invitation to discuss what is 138 00:05:30,510 --> 00:05:32,729 happening politically, politically 139 00:05:32,730 --> 00:05:34,559 in the ROMELIO. 140 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,839 So our presence here 141 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:39,059 is some kind of answer to that call, 142 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:40,439 or at least our contribution to the 143 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,719 debate, to the political debate 144 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,269 that is going on within this computer 145 00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:46,270 and hacker group. 146 00:05:49,390 --> 00:05:50,390 All right, 147 00:05:51,580 --> 00:05:53,989 so just to go back to the Stratfor 148 00:05:53,990 --> 00:05:56,079 thing, to many of us, we 149 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,699 were not necessarily 150 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,969 really close to the to the hacker 151 00:06:00,970 --> 00:06:03,039 world, just this hack of 152 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,529 Stratfor by an 153 00:06:05,530 --> 00:06:07,599 anonymous friend. And I think it 154 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,429 meant a lot. It meant a lot politically, 155 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:11,709 symbolically and practically. 156 00:06:11,710 --> 00:06:13,359 Why that moment? We might have had the 157 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,479 feeling that an anonymous main 158 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,789 targets were the poor Church of 159 00:06:18,790 --> 00:06:20,899 Scientology and that sometimes it was 160 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:23,289 a little bit politically confused. 161 00:06:23,290 --> 00:06:25,359 This attack on Stratfor really 162 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,889 seemed like changing the deal. 163 00:06:26,890 --> 00:06:28,569 The target was perfect. 164 00:06:28,570 --> 00:06:30,669 Stratfor is just the 165 00:06:30,670 --> 00:06:32,559 tip of the spear, the private twin of the 166 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:33,789 CIA. 167 00:06:33,790 --> 00:06:35,919 The skills seems to be impressive from 168 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,299 what we could get from them. 169 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:39,339 And basically stealing Stratfor clients 170 00:06:39,340 --> 00:06:40,809 money to give out on Christmas was 171 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:41,810 actually really funny. 172 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,219 And of course, we don't have to wonder 173 00:06:45,220 --> 00:06:47,169 why the FBI put so much energy in 174 00:06:47,170 --> 00:06:49,449 trapping Hammond and others 175 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:52,509 using Subu and 176 00:06:52,510 --> 00:06:54,869 using this type of offer 177 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:56,979 of infiltration that we all 178 00:06:56,980 --> 00:06:57,279 know of. 179 00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:58,280 Now, 180 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,169 we can bet that if it was a mere Dede's 181 00:07:02,170 --> 00:07:04,419 attack, they wouldn't have cared so much. 182 00:07:04,420 --> 00:07:06,579 Police, I mean, but what 183 00:07:06,580 --> 00:07:08,649 made a AntiSec such a threat in 184 00:07:08,650 --> 00:07:10,659 the eyes of the US police, we can guess, 185 00:07:10,660 --> 00:07:13,209 is that there were obviously brilliant, 186 00:07:13,210 --> 00:07:15,289 angry, determined and 187 00:07:15,290 --> 00:07:16,929 was a huge sense of humor, which is 188 00:07:16,930 --> 00:07:18,369 something that you're really forgiven 189 00:07:18,370 --> 00:07:19,370 for. 190 00:07:21,010 --> 00:07:23,179 But anyway, what's what 191 00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:23,679 this attack. 192 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,209 But is that for the hacker, 193 00:07:26,990 --> 00:07:29,109 whether work for security, for 194 00:07:29,110 --> 00:07:31,209 governments and domination or you fight 195 00:07:31,210 --> 00:07:32,379 against it. 196 00:07:32,380 --> 00:07:34,539 So there's actually very little room 197 00:07:34,540 --> 00:07:36,669 in between and all 198 00:07:36,670 --> 00:07:38,199 those who walk down the path of hacking 199 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,389 now and know a lot 200 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:42,729 of them know that and they're paying 201 00:07:42,730 --> 00:07:44,909 the price for it, which is most 202 00:07:44,910 --> 00:07:46,720 police harassment and jail. 203 00:07:48,940 --> 00:07:51,139 But despite what we call 204 00:07:51,140 --> 00:07:53,529 seasonal meaning, we can see behind this, 205 00:07:53,530 --> 00:07:55,839 this is a serious 206 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,009 the attack against Stratfor. 207 00:07:58,420 --> 00:07:59,739 It's still seen that there's some kind of 208 00:07:59,740 --> 00:08:01,509 like confusion that rings into the hacker 209 00:08:01,510 --> 00:08:04,239 world, like politically. 210 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,309 And maybe we can we can think that the 211 00:08:06,310 --> 00:08:08,739 reason why there's still some confusion 212 00:08:08,740 --> 00:08:10,899 is because no one, even maybe 213 00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:12,879 the hackers themselves, take seriously 214 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,439 the political and philosophical and 215 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,509 philosophical implication of hacking 216 00:08:16,510 --> 00:08:18,009 and of computers. 217 00:08:18,010 --> 00:08:19,749 So basically, this is what we'll try to 218 00:08:19,750 --> 00:08:22,129 humbly do here. 219 00:08:22,130 --> 00:08:24,429 It might be complex, like I said before, 220 00:08:24,430 --> 00:08:26,529 an abstract for sure. 221 00:08:26,530 --> 00:08:28,119 But we really have the feeling that 222 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,669 there's something decisive to understand 223 00:08:30,670 --> 00:08:32,979 in this movement and what it 224 00:08:32,980 --> 00:08:35,109 means. Generally, we think 225 00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:36,908 that understanding that helps us to pick 226 00:08:36,909 --> 00:08:39,069 side and and and 227 00:08:39,070 --> 00:08:41,139 to see that hacking 228 00:08:41,140 --> 00:08:43,298 cannot just be limited to a pure idea 229 00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:45,369 of pure practice, a pure skill for 230 00:08:45,370 --> 00:08:47,619 pure technique, but a clear 231 00:08:47,620 --> 00:08:49,210 and rich relationship to the world. 232 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:52,610 So. 233 00:08:53,310 --> 00:08:54,959 A few years ago, Telecomix, which is 234 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,370 another hacking group, as you know, 235 00:08:57,750 --> 00:09:00,539 is the I quote them to said 236 00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:02,699 that the reason why why hackers 237 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:04,919 were ahead of the time was because they 238 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,079 didn't consider the Internet as 239 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,329 a separate as a separate virtual 240 00:09:09,330 --> 00:09:11,579 world, but as an extension of physical 241 00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:12,580 reality. 242 00:09:13,650 --> 00:09:15,839 And it's even more obvious today 243 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,269 when we see hackerspace 244 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:20,369 getting off the screens to just get in 245 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:21,929 in a just up and hacker space. 246 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,409 But if we can all 247 00:09:25,410 --> 00:09:27,629 agree on the fact that there might not be 248 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:29,309 any distinction to be made between the 249 00:09:29,310 --> 00:09:31,529 virtual and the real, we 250 00:09:31,530 --> 00:09:33,809 have to acknowledge that behind 251 00:09:33,810 --> 00:09:36,299 the virtual world, at its very core, 252 00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:38,849 at its very foundation, lies 253 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:42,029 a certain peculiar ideology 254 00:09:42,030 --> 00:09:43,979 that is a peculiar way to apprehend, 255 00:09:43,980 --> 00:09:46,139 understand and make the world real. 256 00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:48,029 This way of thinking, this ideology 257 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,089 that has become real. 258 00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:52,889 It has a name, a historical name. 259 00:09:52,890 --> 00:09:54,059 It's called cybernetics. 260 00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:56,549 And it's pretty funny because when you 261 00:09:56,550 --> 00:09:59,099 talk about cybernetics, you directly 262 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:01,169 sound like an 80 year 263 00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:02,999 old person who just doesn't know anything 264 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,589 about computers and just things. 265 00:10:04,590 --> 00:10:05,909 But actually, it's not. 266 00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:08,309 I mean, the 267 00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:09,310 the. 268 00:10:10,340 --> 00:10:12,199 This term cybernetic is probably more 269 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,329 actually than ever for the reasons I will 270 00:10:14,330 --> 00:10:15,709 try to expose. 271 00:10:15,710 --> 00:10:18,079 And we have to firstly understand 272 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,209 what what the history of of 273 00:10:20,210 --> 00:10:21,169 cybernetic is. 274 00:10:21,170 --> 00:10:23,149 And we will see that it really 275 00:10:23,150 --> 00:10:25,309 enlightened the 276 00:10:25,310 --> 00:10:27,409 way the world is organized today and 277 00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:28,549 our relationship to computers. 278 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:30,660 So 279 00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:33,500 it's not spinning too fast. 280 00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:37,279 I am sorry to 281 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,349 stress, I usually speak too fast, but 282 00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:40,969 stress is not helping. 283 00:10:40,970 --> 00:10:43,309 So as 284 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:45,559 a history that's full of cybernetics. 285 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:47,689 So in the 1940s, a 286 00:10:47,690 --> 00:10:50,779 mathematician, not Bhavana, 287 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:52,879 while he was finishing his work for the 288 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,099 American Army, undertook to 289 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:57,259 establish a new science that 290 00:10:57,260 --> 00:10:59,419 will also be a new definition of 291 00:10:59,420 --> 00:11:01,729 man of his relationship with the world 292 00:11:01,730 --> 00:11:03,479 and with himself. 293 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,869 So was also Claude Shannon, an engineer 294 00:11:05,870 --> 00:11:08,179 at Bell and MIT who worked 295 00:11:08,180 --> 00:11:10,009 on information theory, contributed to the 296 00:11:10,010 --> 00:11:11,210 development of telecommunication. 297 00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:14,359 And he took part in that project, too, as 298 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,549 did Gregory Batan, a Harvard 299 00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:18,679 anthropologist employed by the American 300 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:20,839 Secret Service in Southeast 301 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,299 Asia during the Second World War. 302 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:25,399 And there was also a trickle into John 303 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,619 von Neumann, what the first 304 00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:29,599 draft of a report on the AIDS vaccine, 305 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,639 which is regarded as the funding text of 306 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,229 computer science. 307 00:11:33,230 --> 00:11:34,999 He was actually the inventor of game 308 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,309 theory, which is a decisive contribution 309 00:11:37,310 --> 00:11:39,199 to neoliberal economics. 310 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,699 He was also a supporter of preventive 311 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:42,169 nuclear strike against the USSR. 312 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,269 Hence the very person who made 313 00:11:47,270 --> 00:11:49,099 substantial contribution to the new means 314 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:51,409 of communication and to data processing 315 00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:53,899 after the Second World War also 316 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:56,319 laid the basis of that science 317 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,059 that Vyner called cybernetics. 318 00:11:59,060 --> 00:12:01,729 And he actually took that from OPOWER 319 00:12:01,730 --> 00:12:03,829 one century before I had the good idea 320 00:12:03,830 --> 00:12:06,199 of defining the science as the science 321 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,200 of governments. 322 00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:10,429 So we're talking about an art of 323 00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:12,109 governing was formative. 324 00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:14,239 Moments are almost forgotten, but 325 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,489 with concepts branched their way 326 00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:18,829 underground, feeding into information 327 00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:21,319 technology as much as biology, artificial 328 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,239 intelligence management or cognitive 329 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,699 sciences at the same time. 330 00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:29,089 And it's as strong cables 331 00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:30,410 on the whole surface of the globe. 332 00:12:31,820 --> 00:12:33,919 So what Seweryn editions believed and 333 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,739 somehow created is a world 334 00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:39,229 where machines will make all forms 335 00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:41,719 of political control are necessary 336 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,489 because computer networks could make 337 00:12:43,490 --> 00:12:45,589 order society without 338 00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:46,789 a centralized control. 339 00:12:48,050 --> 00:12:49,519 The idea was that if humans being were 340 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,189 linked by webs of computers, 341 00:12:52,190 --> 00:12:54,169 they could create together their own kind 342 00:12:54,170 --> 00:12:55,159 of foder. 343 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,409 The feedback of information between 344 00:12:57,410 --> 00:12:59,509 all connected individuals in the 345 00:12:59,510 --> 00:13:01,909 network could create self 346 00:13:01,910 --> 00:13:03,049 stabilizing system. 347 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,989 This idea came from a peculiar idea of 348 00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:08,659 nature, of nature as an ecosystem 349 00:13:08,660 --> 00:13:10,159 that always self-regulating 350 00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:13,820 and self-control itself. 351 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,279 And this is that idea 352 00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:19,609 that there will be some kind of natural 353 00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:21,589 balance that should be and could be 354 00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:23,689 achieved in human relationships thanks to 355 00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:24,690 computers. 356 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,949 So cybernetics is 357 00:13:27,950 --> 00:13:29,179 the ideal. 358 00:13:29,180 --> 00:13:31,419 It's a philosophy, the ontology, the idea 359 00:13:31,420 --> 00:13:33,529 of of being that suppose 360 00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:36,349 is that everything that life itself 361 00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:39,289 can be flattened as pure communication, 362 00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:40,759 as pure messages. 363 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,859 And from there we will need no 364 00:13:42,860 --> 00:13:45,469 gods, no masters, as machines 365 00:13:45,470 --> 00:13:48,019 will enable us to control everything 366 00:13:48,020 --> 00:13:49,669 and to control ourself. 367 00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:51,859 Calculus and feedback loops will allow 368 00:13:51,860 --> 00:13:53,779 real time control of the world by 369 00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:56,209 analyzing and decipher and deciphering 370 00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:57,979 all human behaviors and conducts. 371 00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:05,289 So it means that life 372 00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:07,239 could be reduced communication, as I say, 373 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,969 and that it will just require 374 00:14:09,970 --> 00:14:12,189 to set this communication free, to 375 00:14:12,190 --> 00:14:14,349 let it flow freely for human beings 376 00:14:14,350 --> 00:14:17,329 to achieve the highest level of freedom. 377 00:14:17,330 --> 00:14:19,089 That's why the protests and the dream of 378 00:14:19,090 --> 00:14:20,090 cybernetics. 379 00:14:23,730 --> 00:14:26,069 And so here we are, basically, 380 00:14:26,070 --> 00:14:28,289 we see where this idea of this idea comes 381 00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:30,809 comes from, basically the circulation 382 00:14:30,810 --> 00:14:33,149 of information could be super 383 00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:35,369 to the circulation of commodities. 384 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:37,649 Life is turned into information that 385 00:14:37,650 --> 00:14:39,899 needs to circulate to to circulate 386 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:42,689 as equivalence, just like commodities do 387 00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:44,909 fit by being the key to regulation. 388 00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:46,949 So the cybernetic project means, firstly, 389 00:14:46,950 --> 00:14:49,019 separating and flattening life, but 390 00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:51,119 by translating it into zero 391 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,429 and one and then reuniting it 392 00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:55,709 as a representation that is mimicking 393 00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:56,710 life. 394 00:14:57,330 --> 00:14:59,489 So now we can start to see how 395 00:14:59,490 --> 00:15:02,039 the cybernetic hypothesis is the politics 396 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,299 of the end of the political. 397 00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:06,599 So we will be why will we be interested 398 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,249 in what the consumers of computers and 399 00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:10,109 the Internet said and conceptualize 60 400 00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:12,179 years ago? Simply because this 401 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:14,759 is this way of thinking, 402 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,889 power, social organization, 403 00:15:16,890 --> 00:15:18,989 this way of thinking of self-control 404 00:15:18,990 --> 00:15:20,649 and surveilled world. 405 00:15:20,650 --> 00:15:22,679 This program is today's the vanguard of 406 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,909 government. 407 00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:26,029 It is today. And it will be it 408 00:15:26,030 --> 00:15:27,809 will be even more tomorrow. 409 00:15:27,810 --> 00:15:29,939 It's not the type of power that faces 410 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:32,159 us is the type of power in which 411 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:32,699 we dwell. 412 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:34,589 It is a form of domination in which we 413 00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:36,569 leave the environment in which our 414 00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:38,669 conduct's desires and lives are framed. 415 00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:43,850 I've got a quote here 416 00:15:45,550 --> 00:15:48,159 just just to this quote 417 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,160 comes from 418 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:52,439 Jared Cohen, and 419 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,699 it comes from the new digital 420 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:56,769 age and it says following saying, Oh, no, 421 00:15:56,770 --> 00:15:58,539 no, sorry, sorry, I'm wrong. 422 00:15:58,540 --> 00:15:59,919 I just need to read the before. 423 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,349 So you get the funny thing is this 424 00:16:02,350 --> 00:16:04,719 in Tripoli doesn't harm or Wall Street, 425 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,879 people have been protesting failed 426 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,969 polices and the meager possibilities 427 00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:11,919 afforded by the electoral system. 428 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,959 They have lost faith in government and 429 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,369 other centralized institutions of power. 430 00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:18,429 There is no viable justification for a 431 00:16:18,430 --> 00:16:20,319 democratic system in which public 432 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,929 participation is limited to voting. 433 00:16:22,930 --> 00:16:24,639 We live in a world in which ordinary 434 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,709 people write. Wikipedia spends 435 00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:28,359 the evening moving a telescope via the 436 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,459 Internet and making discoveries half a 437 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:31,479 world away. 438 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,249 Get online to get to help organize a 439 00:16:33,250 --> 00:16:35,499 protest in cyberspace and in the physical 440 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,329 world, such as the revolutions in it in 441 00:16:37,330 --> 00:16:39,549 Egypt or Tunisia, or the demonstration 442 00:16:39,550 --> 00:16:41,919 of the indignados throughout Spain, 443 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,629 or pore over the cables revealed by 444 00:16:43,630 --> 00:16:44,519 WikiLeaks. 445 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,689 The same technologies enable us to work 446 00:16:46,690 --> 00:16:48,879 together at a distance are creating 447 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,159 the expectation to do better at 448 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,989 governing ourselves. 449 00:16:52,990 --> 00:16:55,059 And so here it's not an indignados 450 00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:57,309 who speaks. It's actually someone called 451 00:16:57,310 --> 00:16:59,619 Beth Noveck was actually directing 452 00:16:59,620 --> 00:17:01,599 the Open the Open Government Initiative 453 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,669 for the Obama administration. 454 00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:08,799 That's right. 455 00:17:09,849 --> 00:17:11,828 And then another quote from from the New 456 00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:13,818 York City Hall in New York. 457 00:17:13,819 --> 00:17:15,459 What the New York City Hall thing is that 458 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:17,889 the hierarchical structure based 459 00:17:17,890 --> 00:17:19,629 based on the notion that the government 460 00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:22,338 knows what's good for you is outdated. 461 00:17:22,339 --> 00:17:24,818 The new model for this century depends 462 00:17:24,819 --> 00:17:26,829 on creation and collaboration. 463 00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:30,039 So, unsurprisingly, the 464 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,199 concept of open government data 465 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,359 was formulated not by politicians, but by 466 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:35,380 computer specialists 467 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:38,619 and were fervent defenders of open source 468 00:17:38,620 --> 00:17:40,849 software development. Moreover, and 469 00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:42,219 to involve the US founding father a 470 00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:43,779 conviction that every citizen should take 471 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:45,339 part in government. 472 00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:47,289 And here the government is reduced to the 473 00:17:47,290 --> 00:17:50,169 role of team leader or facilitator, 474 00:17:50,170 --> 00:17:52,479 ultimately to that of a platform 475 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,309 for coordinating citizen action. 476 00:17:56,670 --> 00:17:58,439 And the parallel with social networks is 477 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,239 fully embraced, I still quote, How can 478 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,889 the cities think of itself in the same 479 00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:04,379 way Facebook has an API ecosystem 480 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:05,549 or Twitter draws? 481 00:18:05,550 --> 00:18:06,929 It is a question in the minds of the New 482 00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:08,039 York mayor's office again. 483 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,559 So even if his declarations are 484 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,719 can be seen as fanciful, cogitation, 485 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,879 product of somehow overheated 486 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,559 brains of Silicon Valley, this still 487 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,479 confirms that the practice of government 488 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,909 is less and less identified 489 00:18:24,910 --> 00:18:25,960 with state sovereignty. 490 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:29,379 In the area of networks, governing means 491 00:18:29,380 --> 00:18:31,479 ensuring the interconnection of 492 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,789 people, objects and machines as 493 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:35,739 well as the free. That means transparent 494 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:37,599 and controllable circulation of 495 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,339 information that is generated in this 496 00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:40,599 manner. 497 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,099 This is an activity already conducted 498 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,269 largely outside the state apparatus, 499 00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:46,419 even if the latter try try to be 500 00:18:46,420 --> 00:18:47,859 by every means to maintain control over 501 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:48,909 it. 502 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:50,349 So it's becoming clear that Facebook is 503 00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:52,209 not so much the model of a new form of 504 00:18:52,210 --> 00:18:54,399 government as it's reality already 505 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,400 in operation. 506 00:18:59,870 --> 00:19:01,969 And so, again, I will 507 00:19:01,970 --> 00:19:04,489 call again the new digital age. 508 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:06,399 It says in the future, people want just 509 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,319 backups are data backups or governments, 510 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,839 and it's just not clear 511 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,699 enough with the bosses it controls. 512 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:15,769 Governments may collapse and worse 513 00:19:15,770 --> 00:19:18,079 can destroy physical infrastructure, but 514 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,269 virtual institutions will survive. 515 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,029 With Google, what is concealed beneath 516 00:19:23,030 --> 00:19:25,309 the exterior of an innocent interface 517 00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:27,319 and an extremely effective search engine 518 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,509 is an explicitly political project. 519 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,989 A company that maps the planet to 520 00:19:32,990 --> 00:19:34,789 dispatching its team into every streets 521 00:19:34,790 --> 00:19:36,439 of every one of its towns cannot have 522 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,149 purely commercial aims. 523 00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:40,459 One never maps a territory 524 00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:42,680 one doesn't contemplate appropriating. 525 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,519 So of course, we call consider cybernetic 526 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,659 ideology. But it's not. 527 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:48,559 It's a material. 528 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,689 It's a materialized one 529 00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:52,759 made up of millions of apparatuses 530 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,769 that transform relationships or sells to 531 00:19:54,770 --> 00:19:55,770 others and to the world. 532 00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:59,059 So we believe that cybernetics is 533 00:19:59,060 --> 00:20:00,859 actually the new form that government 534 00:20:00,860 --> 00:20:02,119 takes. 535 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,339 It is a new form of government, actually. 536 00:20:04,340 --> 00:20:06,439 By government, we don't mean the actual 537 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,509 governance that our regular elected 538 00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:10,609 by a particular way to our 539 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:11,629 regularly elected. 540 00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:14,209 But governments in terms of 541 00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:16,309 this particular way to exercise 542 00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:18,379 power to govern, is not to 543 00:20:18,380 --> 00:20:20,269 impose a discipline to a body, nor to 544 00:20:20,270 --> 00:20:22,639 enforce the law in a precise territory. 545 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,109 To govern is something different. 546 00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:25,879 It's a it's it's a different political 547 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,429 technique. It's all about conducting 548 00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:30,559 leading the context and behaviors of 549 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:31,669 a population. 550 00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:33,619 It's taking care of the population like a 551 00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:35,989 shefford of its herd to maximize 552 00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:38,239 its potential and orientate 553 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,240 its freedom. 554 00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:42,109 It's all about taking it to account and 555 00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:44,269 designing its desires, 556 00:20:44,270 --> 00:20:46,369 its habits, its fears, its ways 557 00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:48,289 of thinking and its Melio. 558 00:20:49,310 --> 00:20:51,259 It's about deploying a whole set of 559 00:20:51,260 --> 00:20:53,359 tactics, of discursive tactics, of 560 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,489 material tactics to pay the 561 00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:58,159 finest attention to popular emotions 562 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,160 and feelings. 563 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,669 It's all about acting on the environment 564 00:21:01,670 --> 00:21:03,979 to continuously modify its variables, 565 00:21:03,980 --> 00:21:06,169 to act a few, to influence the actions of 566 00:21:06,170 --> 00:21:08,389 others, to maintain the control of 567 00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:09,390 of the herd 568 00:21:10,670 --> 00:21:13,129 is basically like waging a war without 569 00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:15,679 war, without the least possible violence, 570 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,879 a war of influence. 571 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,219 Subtable, refined, psychological 572 00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:20,630 and indirect. 573 00:21:22,990 --> 00:21:24,529 So detering, 574 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:28,599 so up until up 575 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,149 until recently, this technique of power 576 00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:33,399 and his government was endorsed by what 577 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,720 was called political economy. 578 00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:37,149 What we're saying is that today we 579 00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:38,529 witnessed the downfall of political 580 00:21:38,530 --> 00:21:41,319 economy and its replacement by cybernetic 581 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,599 cybernetic can be seen as a savior 582 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,430 of a declining global capitalism. 583 00:21:46,510 --> 00:21:48,219 Economics have never been a reality or a 584 00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:50,549 science from its inception in 585 00:21:50,550 --> 00:21:51,639 the 17th century. 586 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,799 It's never been anything but an art of 587 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,929 governing. Population scarcity 588 00:21:55,930 --> 00:21:58,029 had to be avoided if riots were 589 00:21:58,030 --> 00:21:59,589 to be avoided. 590 00:21:59,590 --> 00:22:01,659 So, to quote Hamilton, the surest 591 00:22:01,660 --> 00:22:03,549 way for all government is to rely on the 592 00:22:03,550 --> 00:22:04,569 interests of man. 593 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,139 So once the natural 594 00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:09,609 laws of economy were elucidated, 595 00:22:09,610 --> 00:22:12,129 governing meant letting its harmonious 596 00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:14,439 mechanism operate freely and moving men 597 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,479 by manipulating, by manipulating their 598 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:17,480 interests. 599 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,909 So harmony, the predictability 600 00:22:21,910 --> 00:22:24,009 of behaviors, a ready and future, 601 00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:25,959 an assumed rationality of the actors. 602 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,339 All this implied assertion trusts 603 00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:30,489 the ability to give credit that 604 00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:32,559 the whole story of economy. 605 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,299 But what we witnessed today is that the 606 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:36,849 worldwide crisis is just pulverizing 607 00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:38,859 this all perception and this dependance 608 00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:39,909 on trust. 609 00:22:39,910 --> 00:22:42,309 And somehow that is not really a problem. 610 00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:44,199 At the end of trust, at the end of 611 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,569 capitalism can be replaced by cybernetic 612 00:22:46,570 --> 00:22:49,149 control where control and transparency 613 00:22:49,150 --> 00:22:51,279 reign, whereas a subject's behavior is 614 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,019 anticipated in real time through the 615 00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:55,179 algorithmic processing of processing of 616 00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:57,199 a mass of available data about them. 617 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,319 So there's no need to trust them. 618 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,389 And for them to trust, it's sufficient 619 00:23:01,390 --> 00:23:03,519 that they'll be sufficiently monitored. 620 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,619 As Lenin said, trust is good, 621 00:23:05,620 --> 00:23:06,620 control is better. 622 00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:11,109 So cybernetics developed on that open 623 00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:13,359 wound of modernity. 624 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,279 It asserted itself as a remedy for the 625 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,769 existential and those confirmed 626 00:23:17,770 --> 00:23:20,199 government or crisis of the West. 627 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,089 Cybernetic government is inherently 628 00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:23,769 apocalyptic. It has no project in the 629 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:25,179 future, no positive I.D. 630 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:27,459 on life. Its purpose is to locally 631 00:23:27,460 --> 00:23:30,099 manage and control, create stability 632 00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,349 and eventually produce a perpetual 633 00:23:32,350 --> 00:23:34,449 self-regulation of systems through 634 00:23:34,450 --> 00:23:35,979 the unrestrained, transparent and 635 00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:38,439 controllable circulation of information. 636 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,880 So, to quote Vyner, again, 637 00:23:40,930 --> 00:23:43,449 communication is a segment of society 638 00:23:43,450 --> 00:23:45,669 and social work whose work 639 00:23:45,670 --> 00:23:47,319 consists in keeping the channels of 640 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,579 communication open. 641 00:23:48,580 --> 00:23:50,799 Are the ones on the continuance 642 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,199 or downfall of our civilization largely 643 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,200 depends. 644 00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:57,909 So just as a political 645 00:23:57,910 --> 00:24:01,179 economy producer, Homo Economicus, 646 00:24:01,180 --> 00:24:02,829 people were just manageable 647 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:05,439 by the framework of the industrial 648 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,599 states, cybernetics is producing 649 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,600 its own humanity, 650 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:11,979 a transparent humanity emptied out 651 00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:14,319 by the very flows that traverse it, 652 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,659 electrified by information and 653 00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:18,549 attached to the world by an ever growing 654 00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:21,309 quantity of apparatuses, 655 00:24:21,310 --> 00:24:23,319 humanity that's inseparable from its 656 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,389 technological environments because it 657 00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:27,639 is constituted and thus driven by that, 658 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,949 such as is the object 659 00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:32,109 of government now no longer a man or 660 00:24:32,110 --> 00:24:33,549 his interests, but his social 661 00:24:33,550 --> 00:24:36,009 environments, political economy, rangpur 662 00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:37,539 beings, by living them free to pursue 663 00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:39,699 their interests, cybernetics control them 664 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,170 by leaving them free to communicate. 665 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,479 And behind the futuristic promise 666 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,129 of a world of freewheeling people and 667 00:24:48,130 --> 00:24:50,589 objects when cars, fridges, watches, 668 00:24:50,590 --> 00:24:52,659 vacuums and dildos are directly connected 669 00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:54,909 to each other and to the Internet, 670 00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:57,069 there is what is already here, the fact 671 00:24:57,070 --> 00:24:59,469 that the most polyvalent of sensor 672 00:24:59,470 --> 00:25:02,409 is already in operation, that is myself. 673 00:25:02,410 --> 00:25:04,569 I share my geolocation, 674 00:25:04,570 --> 00:25:06,789 my mood, my opinions, my performance 675 00:25:06,790 --> 00:25:08,769 numbers and their self evaluation. 676 00:25:08,770 --> 00:25:10,689 I always post photos of my vacations, my 677 00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:12,939 evenings, my riots, my colleagues of 678 00:25:12,940 --> 00:25:14,109 what I'm going to eat. 679 00:25:14,110 --> 00:25:15,189 If I'm going to fuck. 680 00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:17,259 I appear not to do much, and yet I 681 00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:19,359 produce a steady stream 682 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,429 of data whether I work or 683 00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:23,799 not. My everyday life is a stock 684 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,049 of information, a stock of data 685 00:25:26,050 --> 00:25:27,819 that is valuable on the market of 686 00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:29,979 cybernetic capitalism. 687 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:32,679 Regrets, regret, refrigerated 688 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,809 storehouses of data or the pantry of 689 00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:37,689 current government in its remaining 690 00:25:37,690 --> 00:25:39,279 databases, produced and continuously 691 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,169 updated by the everyday life of connected 692 00:25:41,170 --> 00:25:43,959 humans. It looks for the correlations 693 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,339 it can use to establish not 694 00:25:46,340 --> 00:25:48,429 universal laws, nor even wise, 695 00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:49,839 but rather wens. 696 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,209 And what's so state ambitions, 697 00:25:52,210 --> 00:25:54,099 as the stated ambition of cybernetics is 698 00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:56,439 to manage to to manage 699 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,509 the unforeseeable and to govern 700 00:25:58,510 --> 00:26:00,609 the inconvertible instead of trying 701 00:26:00,610 --> 00:26:01,610 to destroy it. 702 00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:04,359 And of course, the object of the great 703 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:06,519 harvest of personal information is not 704 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,319 an individualized tracking of the whole 705 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,320 population. 706 00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:12,069 If the civilians insinuate themselves 707 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:14,139 into the intimate life of each and 708 00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:16,059 every person, it's not so much to 709 00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:18,369 construct individual files as to assemble 710 00:26:18,370 --> 00:26:19,869 massive databases. 711 00:26:19,870 --> 00:26:21,969 That makes numerical sense is more 712 00:26:21,970 --> 00:26:24,069 efficient. To correlate the shared 713 00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:25,929 characteristics of individuals in a 714 00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:28,239 multitude of profiles with a 715 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,519 development suggests one 716 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,019 is not interested in the individual 717 00:26:32,020 --> 00:26:34,149 present. An entire, but only in 718 00:26:34,150 --> 00:26:37,149 what what makes it possible to determine 719 00:26:37,150 --> 00:26:39,249 their potential line of flight. 720 00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:41,019 And this where we understand why Google 721 00:26:41,020 --> 00:26:42,020 is a war machine, 722 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,279 that the 723 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,959 advantage of applying to civilians, to 724 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,029 profiles Evans and Virtuality, is 725 00:26:49,030 --> 00:26:50,739 that statistical entities don't take 726 00:26:50,740 --> 00:26:52,749 offense and individuals can steal. 727 00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:54,609 Claims are not being monitored, or at 728 00:26:54,610 --> 00:26:55,610 least not personally. 729 00:26:56,620 --> 00:26:58,709 While cybernetic government 730 00:26:58,710 --> 00:27:00,369 already operates in terms of a completely 731 00:27:00,370 --> 00:27:02,709 new logic, its subject continues 732 00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:04,389 to think of themselves according to the 733 00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:05,499 old paradigm. 734 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:07,569 We believe that our personal data 735 00:27:07,570 --> 00:27:09,639 belong to us like our car and 736 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,869 our shoes, and that we are only 737 00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:12,999 exercising our individual freedom by 738 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,099 deciding to let Google, Facebook, Apple, 739 00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:16,959 Amazon or whatever or the police have 740 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,179 access to them without realizing that 741 00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:21,249 this has immediate effects on 742 00:27:21,250 --> 00:27:23,949 those refused to and will be treated 743 00:27:23,950 --> 00:27:26,349 for from from then on as suspects, 744 00:27:26,350 --> 00:27:28,419 as potential divines. 745 00:27:28,420 --> 00:27:30,519 So just like against a new digital 746 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,839 age puts it. 747 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,449 So I quote again, so there will be people 748 00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:36,339 will resist adopting and using 749 00:27:36,340 --> 00:27:37,299 technology. 750 00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:39,249 People want nothing to do with virtual 751 00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:41,409 profiles, online data systems or 752 00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:42,429 smartphones. 753 00:27:42,430 --> 00:27:44,589 Yet a government may suspect 754 00:27:44,590 --> 00:27:46,749 that people opt out completely, 755 00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:48,969 have something to hide, and thus 756 00:27:48,970 --> 00:27:50,679 are more likely to break laws. 757 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,439 And as counter-terrorism measures 758 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,879 that governments will build a kind of 759 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,159 hidden people registry we described 760 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,049 earlier, if you don't have any registered 761 00:27:59,050 --> 00:28:01,299 social networking profiles or 762 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:04,119 mobiles or a mobile subscriptions 763 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,399 and online references to your to 764 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,529 your unusually hard to find, 765 00:28:08,530 --> 00:28:10,269 you might be considered a candidate for 766 00:28:10,270 --> 00:28:11,589 such a registry. 767 00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:13,659 You might also be subjected to a strict 768 00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:15,519 set of new regulations that includes 769 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,889 rigorous airport screening or even travel 770 00:28:17,890 --> 00:28:18,890 restrictions. 771 00:28:19,780 --> 00:28:21,760 So this is where we see 772 00:28:23,860 --> 00:28:25,959 a divide going through the 773 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,099 hacker movement. 774 00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:28,659 There are those who hack against 775 00:28:28,660 --> 00:28:30,789 governments, against gotan mentality, 776 00:28:30,790 --> 00:28:32,679 against cybernetics, and there are those 777 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,839 who want a better transparency. 778 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,209 We want a democratic control over 779 00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:38,859 control. So we pursue the dream of 780 00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:40,509 cybernetic world where life can be 781 00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:42,369 reduced and self managed by good 782 00:28:42,370 --> 00:28:43,370 algorithms. 783 00:28:44,770 --> 00:28:47,289 So of course, we owns the Internet. 784 00:28:47,290 --> 00:28:49,389 To what extent do illegal Trevelyan's 785 00:28:49,390 --> 00:28:51,759 go are real and important issues? 786 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,829 But there are not sufficient. 787 00:28:54,550 --> 00:28:56,469 There are there are some way off the tip 788 00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:58,809 of the iceberg. What could make us miss 789 00:28:58,810 --> 00:29:00,969 that? A new form of power is holding 790 00:29:00,970 --> 00:29:03,129 us. And most of all, this way of 791 00:29:03,130 --> 00:29:04,359 revealing what will be hidden by 792 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,159 companies and governments should not make 793 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,229 us believe that a solution should 794 00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:09,939 be a general transparency, 795 00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:13,209 which was, for instance, the political 796 00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:15,519 horizon of the Pirate Party is a Pirate 797 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,679 Party program was just about pushing the 798 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,839 political ideology further or 799 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,159 problem with Sabaneta cannot be 800 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,909 that that the people were actually. 801 00:29:24,910 --> 00:29:25,899 The problem is not the people who 802 00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:27,549 actually own the key to the networks and 803 00:29:27,550 --> 00:29:29,469 to Awdry. That's what makes cybernetics 804 00:29:29,470 --> 00:29:30,759 the enemy of freedom is rather it's 805 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,969 flattened and fully controlled idea 806 00:29:32,970 --> 00:29:34,119 of what life should be. 807 00:29:35,230 --> 00:29:36,609 So let's set an example. 808 00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:38,909 For instance, you remember probably 809 00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:41,079 the riots in Tottenham and 810 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,499 in London in 2011 and in. 811 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:45,899 At least maybe it was the same thing 812 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:48,329 in some other places in France, 813 00:29:48,330 --> 00:29:50,549 some old newspaper said, oh, 814 00:29:50,550 --> 00:29:52,169 yeah, you know, it's it's a real it's a 815 00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:53,489 Twitter revolt. 816 00:29:53,490 --> 00:29:55,689 And actually, the rioters use the 817 00:29:55,690 --> 00:29:56,909 Blackberries, not Twitter. 818 00:29:56,910 --> 00:29:59,069 So but but what actually 819 00:29:59,070 --> 00:30:01,439 Twitter helped organized around 820 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,330 was those those popular riots. 821 00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:06,779 What was what was called 822 00:30:06,780 --> 00:30:08,909 as a citizen sweepers who 823 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:10,769 volunteered to sweep up and repair the 824 00:30:10,770 --> 00:30:12,179 damage caused by the confrontation and 825 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:13,409 looting. 826 00:30:13,410 --> 00:30:14,999 And that initiative was relayed and 827 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,799 coordinated by something called crisis. 828 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,959 Commons was drubbings, I quote, 829 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,089 a global network of volunteers working 830 00:30:21,090 --> 00:30:23,099 together to build and use technology 831 00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:25,799 tools to help respond to disasters 832 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,839 and improve resiliency and response 833 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,669 before a crisis. 834 00:30:29,670 --> 00:30:32,099 So what we see here is that a cybernetic 835 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,289 tools can as much be used to support 836 00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:35,939 a revolt and to suppress it. 837 00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:37,719 That's the point I wanted to make. 838 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:38,720 In the same way 839 00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:42,599 we can look at some of the ETOPS 840 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,059 that have been produced by last year's 841 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:47,219 social movements and, for instance, 842 00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:48,539 some Spanish indignados 843 00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:51,299 for them. 844 00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:52,289 What they say, and I quote again, that 845 00:30:52,290 --> 00:30:54,929 for them, the social computer networks 846 00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:57,059 have not only accelerated the spread of 847 00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:59,639 the 2011 movements, but also 848 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,009 and more importantly, had set the terms 849 00:31:02,010 --> 00:31:04,379 of a new type of political organization 850 00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:06,059 for the struggle for society, a 851 00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:08,219 connected, participatory and 852 00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:09,929 transparent democracy. 853 00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:11,759 And somehow here, the point I want to 854 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,739 make is that we all feel a little bit ill 855 00:31:13,740 --> 00:31:14,940 at ease to see that 856 00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:18,479 there's so much in common between the 857 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,669 type of utopia that presents itself 858 00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:22,829 as revolutionary and the one upheld 859 00:31:22,830 --> 00:31:25,469 by Jared Cohen and Eric Schmidt 860 00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:26,969 when on the first page of their books and 861 00:31:26,970 --> 00:31:28,949 used to learn again, you can read the 862 00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:30,719 Internet is the largest experiment 863 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,190 involving anarchy in history. 864 00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:35,699 So what we need is not transparency. 865 00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:37,529 It is actually opacity. 866 00:31:37,530 --> 00:31:39,419 If you want to build and use tools that 867 00:31:39,420 --> 00:31:40,680 allow us to secure 868 00:31:42,570 --> 00:31:44,729 our secure and then anonymous access 869 00:31:44,730 --> 00:31:45,629 to the Internet. 870 00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:47,489 It's not to defend the network. 871 00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:50,069 It's to defend ourselves on the network 872 00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:52,739 and from those who own and control it. 873 00:31:52,740 --> 00:31:54,809 An Internet that provides anonymity and 874 00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:56,879 confidentiality of communication is 875 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,319 not the Internet. It's a political 876 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,179 operation against the Internet. 877 00:32:00,180 --> 00:32:01,380 As a control device, 878 00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:05,669 we should remember as this cruel 879 00:32:05,670 --> 00:32:07,739 sentence from Edward Snowden, he said, 880 00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:09,719 I quote, The greatest fear that I have is 881 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,309 that nothing will change. 882 00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:13,439 People will see in the media all of 883 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:14,389 these disclosures. 884 00:32:14,390 --> 00:32:15,689 They will know the lengths that the 885 00:32:15,690 --> 00:32:17,339 government is going to grant themselves 886 00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:19,529 powers unilaterally to create greater 887 00:32:19,530 --> 00:32:21,359 control over American society and global 888 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,159 society. But they won't be willing to 889 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,139 take the risks necessary to stand up and 890 00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:26,140 fight. 891 00:32:26,790 --> 00:32:28,089 And actually, this is what happened. 892 00:32:28,090 --> 00:32:29,669 I mean, nothing happened. 893 00:32:29,670 --> 00:32:31,049 This is not to say that somehow a 894 00:32:31,050 --> 00:32:32,669 journalistic task of revealing 895 00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:34,379 corruption, massively, etc., is not 896 00:32:34,380 --> 00:32:36,749 useful. It's it surely is, 897 00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:38,639 but only because it enables us to protect 898 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,079 ourselves from it. 899 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,549 What I mean is that knowing the NSA 900 00:32:41,550 --> 00:32:43,349 spying on everyone doesn't produce any 901 00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:45,239 freedom. It doesn't produce autonomy or 902 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,279 bring down governments to quote an old 903 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,269 friend. 904 00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:50,039 It's not true. That will destroy all the 905 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,449 flies, but a world of truth. 906 00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:53,759 It doesn't make life qualitatively 907 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,159 better. It just helps us to know 908 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,929 what we have to do to create a zone of 909 00:32:57,930 --> 00:33:00,299 capacity to keep our activities hidden 910 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:02,069 from governments, from government. 911 00:33:02,070 --> 00:33:04,289 Panopticon The only 912 00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:06,359 reason why anyone will oppose a 913 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,579 surveillance state is not for the sake 914 00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:11,249 of it or for some abstract 915 00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:13,619 idea of privacy or freedom. 916 00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:14,620 Nobody does that. 917 00:33:17,550 --> 00:33:19,319 And what will be the point of hiding or 918 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,089 preference is for Coke or Pepsi from the 919 00:33:21,090 --> 00:33:23,549 dictator of action that the cybernetic 920 00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:25,769 power always wants what's best for us 921 00:33:25,770 --> 00:33:27,749 and it actually knows it better than us. 922 00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:29,459 So that's the only reason why one will 923 00:33:29,460 --> 00:33:31,379 actually fight against civilians is 924 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:33,629 because of the potential of the 925 00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:35,339 potentially criminal character of its 926 00:33:35,340 --> 00:33:37,409 activities. And this is something that is 927 00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:39,809 fully achievable when you want to subvert 928 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:42,389 the existing order, the existing 929 00:33:42,390 --> 00:33:44,309 social relationship, which seems to be 930 00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:46,589 the main objective of Anonymous and 931 00:33:46,590 --> 00:33:49,019 the hacking world, you 932 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:51,239 just end up with the police trying 933 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,240 to stop you. 934 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,129 So what I mean is that we never fight for 935 00:33:56,130 --> 00:33:57,869 an abstract idea of freedom. 936 00:33:57,870 --> 00:34:00,089 Nobody does that. We fight to disrupt 937 00:34:00,090 --> 00:34:00,989 the status quo. 938 00:34:00,990 --> 00:34:03,269 And it is in this very process that lies 939 00:34:03,270 --> 00:34:05,399 freedom. Freedom is never the objective. 940 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:06,599 It is a fight itself. 941 00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:10,529 So I will go to 942 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:11,940 the last part of my speech. 943 00:34:13,179 --> 00:34:14,730 Yes, I will end up 944 00:34:16,290 --> 00:34:18,359 so I can clarify what what I 945 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,609 what I think is really rich in the hacker 946 00:34:20,610 --> 00:34:22,799 movement and how 947 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,899 it helps clarify your question for the 948 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:26,698 global revolutionary movement. 949 00:34:26,699 --> 00:34:28,839 For at least 150 years, 950 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,388 the revolutionary movement has been 951 00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:32,488 divided around the question of technique 952 00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:33,448 and technology. 953 00:34:33,449 --> 00:34:35,218 To summarize the debate, you had to, on 954 00:34:35,219 --> 00:34:37,349 one hand, a 955 00:34:37,350 --> 00:34:39,549 technophiles which were basically 956 00:34:39,550 --> 00:34:41,669 on Marxism. We saw that the machines will 957 00:34:41,670 --> 00:34:43,678 help us being free and it will be the 958 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:45,749 condition to the global emancipation. 959 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:47,819 And on the other side, you 960 00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:50,099 had the like, say, 961 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:52,198 technophobic people will believe that 962 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,779 alienation was rooted in 963 00:34:54,780 --> 00:34:56,219 technique and technology itself. 964 00:34:57,570 --> 00:35:00,069 But somehow technophobia and technophobia 965 00:35:00,070 --> 00:35:03,009 are the two sides of the same coin. 966 00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:04,859 And this is what what what the movements 967 00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:05,809 helps us. 968 00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:06,810 It helps us understand 969 00:35:08,370 --> 00:35:10,619 what they do have in common technophobia 970 00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:11,620 and technophobia 971 00:35:13,110 --> 00:35:15,809 is that they share a same false 972 00:35:15,810 --> 00:35:18,089 belief that such a thing 973 00:35:18,090 --> 00:35:20,159 as technik exists, that a 974 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,589 pure technik will exist. 975 00:35:22,590 --> 00:35:24,749 It will be possible in human existence 976 00:35:24,750 --> 00:35:26,909 to divide between what is technical 977 00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:28,349 and what is not. 978 00:35:28,350 --> 00:35:30,599 Well, in fact, it's not possible. 979 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,269 No such thing as a pure technique exists. 980 00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:34,949 You only have to look at the state of 981 00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:36,659 incompletion in which a human offspring 982 00:35:36,660 --> 00:35:38,699 is born and the time it takes for it to 983 00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:40,979 move in the world and to talk 984 00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:43,079 to realize that its relation to 985 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,419 the world is not given in the least. 986 00:35:45,420 --> 00:35:47,519 It's rather as a result of a whole 987 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,889 elaboration in relation 988 00:35:49,890 --> 00:35:51,269 to the world, is not the result of a 989 00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:52,739 natural compatibility. 990 00:35:52,740 --> 00:35:54,839 It is essentially artificial that 991 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,250 is technical. To speak Greek 992 00:35:57,630 --> 00:36:00,029 for its human world is a certain 993 00:36:00,030 --> 00:36:02,549 configuration of techniques, of culinary 994 00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:04,259 techniques, architectural techniques, 995 00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:05,969 musical techniques, spiritual techniques 996 00:36:05,970 --> 00:36:07,709 and from national agricultural, erotic 997 00:36:07,710 --> 00:36:09,269 martial, whatever, or 998 00:36:10,650 --> 00:36:13,019 the human world is always technique. 999 00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:15,119 There's no generic human nature 1000 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,009 or essence because there are only 1001 00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:19,079 particular techniques and because 1002 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,329 every technique configures a world, 1003 00:36:21,330 --> 00:36:22,829 a relationship to this world. 1004 00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:27,899 And that is also why our fellow, your 1005 00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:29,969 world really appears to us as technical, 1006 00:36:29,970 --> 00:36:31,559 because a set of activities, that 1007 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,599 structure is already part of us. 1008 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,279 It's one those who are not familiar with 1009 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,209 that seems to have a strange 1010 00:36:36,210 --> 00:36:37,529 artificiality. 1011 00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:39,269 The only moment where we where we feel 1012 00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:41,409 the world is, is is 1013 00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:43,469 is artificial is when we make 1014 00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:45,329 an innovation and where or when something 1015 00:36:45,330 --> 00:36:46,330 breaks down 1016 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,009 so the techniques can be reduced to 1017 00:36:50,010 --> 00:36:51,869 a collection of equivalent instruments. 1018 00:36:51,870 --> 00:36:54,059 The generic man will just take up and 1019 00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:56,609 use without his essence being affected. 1020 00:36:56,610 --> 00:36:58,889 Every tool configures and embodies 1021 00:36:58,890 --> 00:37:00,659 a particular relation with the world. 1022 00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:02,639 And the worlds formed in this way are not 1023 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,709 equivalents anymore than the humans we 1024 00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:05,710 inhabit them are. 1025 00:37:06,750 --> 00:37:08,759 And that's why we cannot hierarchy's 1026 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,229 those worlds. There is nothing to 1027 00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:12,329 establish some as more advanced than 1028 00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:13,589 others. 1029 00:37:13,590 --> 00:37:15,389 There are really distinct, each having 1030 00:37:15,390 --> 00:37:17,489 its own potential and some history. 1031 00:37:17,490 --> 00:37:19,049 Of course, the Western ideology of 1032 00:37:19,050 --> 00:37:21,329 progress implicitly introduce a criterion 1033 00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:23,489 to hierarchy's world, and it's actually 1034 00:37:23,490 --> 00:37:24,449 a pretty simple one. 1035 00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:26,369 It's the productivity of the techniques 1036 00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:28,409 considered apart from what each technique 1037 00:37:28,410 --> 00:37:30,869 might involve ethically without regard 1038 00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:31,829 to the sensible world. 1039 00:37:31,830 --> 00:37:33,899 It engenders this 1040 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:36,359 why there's no progress but Catalyst's 1041 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,639 progress and why capitalism is 1042 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,769 the uninterrupted, uninterrupted 1043 00:37:40,770 --> 00:37:42,629 destruction of worlds. 1044 00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:44,249 So this is why technophiles and 1045 00:37:44,250 --> 00:37:46,499 technophobic fail to grab the ethical 1046 00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:48,270 nature of every technique 1047 00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,899 in order to hierarchy's was a criterion 1048 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:53,819 has to be introduced and implicit in 1049 00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:55,409 making it possible to classify the 1050 00:37:55,410 --> 00:37:57,959 different techniques in case of progress. 1051 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,529 This is simply the quantifiable. 1052 00:38:01,530 --> 00:38:03,509 It's a productivity of the techniques 1053 00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:05,759 considered apart from what each technique 1054 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,530 involves ethically without. 1055 00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:10,900 And so. 1056 00:38:13,860 --> 00:38:16,649 So in that sense, capitalism 1057 00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:18,629 is essentially technological, it is a 1058 00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:20,399 profitable organization of the most 1059 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,719 productive techniques into a system. 1060 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:24,779 It's cordial figure is not the economist, 1061 00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:25,929 but the engineer. 1062 00:38:25,930 --> 00:38:27,659 The engineer is a specialist in 1063 00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:29,589 techniques and those thus the chief 1064 00:38:29,590 --> 00:38:31,019 expropriates of them. 1065 00:38:31,020 --> 00:38:33,089 One doesn't let himself be affected by 1066 00:38:33,090 --> 00:38:35,129 any of them and spread his own absence 1067 00:38:35,130 --> 00:38:36,629 from the world heavyweight he can. 1068 00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:39,089 He's a sad and servile figure. 1069 00:38:39,090 --> 00:38:41,099 The figure of the hacker can trust point 1070 00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:43,529 by point with a figure of the engineer, 1071 00:38:43,530 --> 00:38:45,719 whatever the artistic director or 1072 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:47,819 entrepreneurial efforts to try 1073 00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:50,069 to neutralize him may be, whereas 1074 00:38:50,070 --> 00:38:51,929 the engineer will capture everything that 1075 00:38:51,930 --> 00:38:53,639 functions in such a manner that 1076 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,709 everything functions better in place. 1077 00:38:55,710 --> 00:38:57,539 It's in the service of the system the 1078 00:38:57,540 --> 00:38:59,069 hacker has to himself. 1079 00:38:59,070 --> 00:39:01,199 How does that work in order to find its 1080 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,329 flaws, but also to invent 1081 00:39:03,330 --> 00:39:04,949 other uses to experiments. 1082 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:08,429 Experimenting, Xen means exploring 1083 00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:10,649 what such and such a technique implies 1084 00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:12,749 ethically, what relation to the world it 1085 00:39:12,750 --> 00:39:15,389 enables or disables. 1086 00:39:15,390 --> 00:39:17,609 The hacker polytechnique out 1087 00:39:17,610 --> 00:39:19,559 of a technological system in order to 1088 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:20,549 free them. 1089 00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:22,499 If we're are slaves to technology. 1090 00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:24,299 This is precisely because there is a hole 1091 00:39:24,300 --> 00:39:26,489 in symbol of artifacts of all of 1092 00:39:26,490 --> 00:39:28,619 our everyday existence that we take to be 1093 00:39:28,620 --> 00:39:30,389 specific, that we take to be specifically 1094 00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:32,639 technical, and that we will always regard 1095 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,749 simply as black boxes, of which were 1096 00:39:34,750 --> 00:39:37,409 the innocent users understanding how 1097 00:39:37,410 --> 00:39:39,659 any of the devices that surround us works 1098 00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:41,669 allow us to see them not as mere 1099 00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:43,829 environments, but as a world arranged 1100 00:39:43,830 --> 00:39:45,869 in a certain way and one that we can 1101 00:39:45,870 --> 00:39:48,209 shape. This is the hackers perspective 1102 00:39:48,210 --> 00:39:50,279 on the world and these past 1103 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,079 few years, the hackers military as gained 1104 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,269 some sophistication politically, managing 1105 00:39:54,270 --> 00:39:56,069 to identify friends and enemies more 1106 00:39:56,070 --> 00:39:57,119 clearly. 1107 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,889 But as we said earlier there, there's 1108 00:39:58,890 --> 00:40:00,819 still some confusion to clarify. 1109 00:40:00,820 --> 00:40:03,479 In 1986, Dr. Prush wrote, 1110 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,979 whether you know it or not, if you're a 1111 00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:06,569 hacker, you're a revolutionary. 1112 00:40:06,570 --> 00:40:08,249 Don't worry, you're on the right side. 1113 00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:09,689 It's not certain that this sort of 1114 00:40:09,690 --> 00:40:11,729 innocent is still possible. 1115 00:40:11,730 --> 00:40:13,169 We have to remember that it's actually a 1116 00:40:13,170 --> 00:40:15,239 hacker. It just gave out 1117 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,320 Jeremy Hammond to the cops 1118 00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:19,169 in the hacker Milia. 1119 00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:21,299 There's a originary illusion according 1120 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:23,639 to which freedom of information, freedom 1121 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,379 of the Internet or freedom of the 1122 00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:27,509 individual can be set against those who 1123 00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:29,399 are bent on controlling them. 1124 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,619 And this is a serious misunderstanding. 1125 00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:33,629 Freedom and surveillance, freedom and the 1126 00:40:33,630 --> 00:40:35,699 panoptic all belong to the same 1127 00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:37,799 arm of government historically as the 1128 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,049 endless expansion of control procedures 1129 00:40:40,050 --> 00:40:42,299 is a corollary of a form of power 1130 00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:44,339 that is realized through the freedom of 1131 00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:46,499 individuals as we exposed earlier. 1132 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:48,239 Liberal government is not one that is 1133 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:49,739 exercised directly on the bodies of its 1134 00:40:49,740 --> 00:40:51,959 subjects or that expect obedience. 1135 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,119 It's a background power which prefers 1136 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,459 to manage space and rule of our interests 1137 00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:58,409 rather than bodies are powers that 1138 00:40:58,410 --> 00:41:01,169 overseas monitors and acts minimally 1139 00:41:01,170 --> 00:41:03,209 intervening only want to frame when the 1140 00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:04,210 framework is threatened. 1141 00:41:06,270 --> 00:41:08,699 Government is up order which one obeys 1142 00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:10,529 like one eats when hungry and covers 1143 00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:11,550 oneself when called. 1144 00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:14,879 Though for the individual, 1145 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,979 freedom is the only kind there is. 1146 00:41:16,980 --> 00:41:19,219 Is that, is this what 1147 00:41:19,220 --> 00:41:21,509 the Libertarians will never understand 1148 00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:23,549 are genuinely free being is not even set 1149 00:41:23,550 --> 00:41:24,869 to be free. It simply is. 1150 00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:26,939 It exists, its power, according to its 1151 00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:29,069 being safe and animals, that it is 1152 00:41:29,070 --> 00:41:31,139 roaming free only when it lives in an 1153 00:41:31,140 --> 00:41:32,699 environment that's already completely 1154 00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:34,439 control fenced and civilized 1155 00:41:35,820 --> 00:41:37,949 in English friend and free and 1156 00:41:37,950 --> 00:41:40,079 friend and fly in German come from 1157 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,489 the same Indo-European root which 1158 00:41:41,490 --> 00:41:43,959 convicted of a shared powers that grows. 1159 00:41:44,970 --> 00:41:47,459 Being free and having ties was one 1160 00:41:47,460 --> 00:41:48,539 and the same thing. 1161 00:41:48,540 --> 00:41:50,489 I am free because I have ties, because I 1162 00:41:50,490 --> 00:41:52,739 am linked to a reality greater than me, 1163 00:41:52,740 --> 00:41:54,869 not because I'm alone on my own. 1164 00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:56,399 Freedom is not the act of sharing or 1165 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,259 attachment, but a practical capacity to 1166 00:41:58,260 --> 00:42:00,509 work on them, to move around in space, 1167 00:42:00,510 --> 00:42:02,369 to form or to solve them. 1168 00:42:02,370 --> 00:42:04,109 The freedom to uproot oneself has always 1169 00:42:04,110 --> 00:42:06,179 been a fantasy and 1170 00:42:06,180 --> 00:42:07,180 empty freedom. 1171 00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:09,179 So to conclude this thought, because 1172 00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:11,189 there's been many hacking attacks that so 1173 00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:13,049 many of us have uploaded those last 1174 00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:15,199 years, and the stake is, of course, to 1175 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,010 always bring them further, to not 1176 00:42:18,330 --> 00:42:19,739 let us get arrested alone. 1177 00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:21,869 Facing repression, it's 1178 00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:23,819 pretty clear where the strength of 1179 00:42:23,820 --> 00:42:25,079 hacking lies. 1180 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,209 We need to multiply all of capacity 1181 00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:28,649 from where we can experiment without 1182 00:42:28,650 --> 00:42:29,639 being cocked. 1183 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,829 And we need clouds of attacks against 1184 00:42:31,830 --> 00:42:34,169 infrastructures of control and civilians. 1185 00:42:34,170 --> 00:42:36,719 And of course, attacking infrastructure 1186 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,789 doesn't mean truly destroying it, 1187 00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:41,249 but also means learning how to inhabit 1188 00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:43,499 it differently, how to snatch it 1189 00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:45,389 from its actual use and how to 1190 00:42:45,390 --> 00:42:47,039 appropriate it for the construction of 1191 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,040 all worlds. 1192 00:42:48,990 --> 00:42:50,639 Just to sum it up, a world doesn't have 1193 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,629 an infrastructure. 1194 00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:53,159 It has a way and a form 1195 00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:55,210 letter. 1196 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,959 Sorry, it is long just for those who 1197 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,670 might be interested. I just want, I think 1198 00:43:01,710 --> 00:43:03,839 to think are basically most 1199 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,819 of what a big part of what I said came 1200 00:43:05,820 --> 00:43:06,739 from. 1201 00:43:06,740 --> 00:43:09,029 So a chapter of this book that I was 1202 00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:10,289 thinking about, which is called Out to 1203 00:43:10,290 --> 00:43:11,549 our Friends. And I actually have copies 1204 00:43:11,550 --> 00:43:12,799 in English and German for. 1205 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,299 All of this very chapter, which probably 1206 00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:16,219 more clear and less boring to read and to 1207 00:43:16,220 --> 00:43:18,349 hear, so I will have 1208 00:43:18,350 --> 00:43:21,229 some if you want. And also at 10:00, 1209 00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:22,339 there are some people here were 1210 00:43:22,340 --> 00:43:24,589 organizing a workshop and the whole 1211 00:43:24,590 --> 00:43:26,689 14 to discuss to discuss 1212 00:43:26,690 --> 00:43:28,039 those issues that have been discussed 1213 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,019 here. So I invite everybody who's been 1214 00:43:30,020 --> 00:43:32,059 interested to go at 10:00 tonight, that 1215 00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:33,060 whole fortune. 1216 00:43:34,670 --> 00:43:36,489 All right. Thanks for the talk so far. 1217 00:43:42,110 --> 00:43:44,239 We actually have 15 1218 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:45,409 minutes for Q&A. 1219 00:43:45,410 --> 00:43:47,629 So if you have questions or comments, 1220 00:43:47,630 --> 00:43:49,909 please get in line at these microphones. 1221 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,269 Please note that, please, only one 1222 00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:55,669 comment or one question at a time. 1223 00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:58,009 So I guess we can start 1224 00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:59,449 with microphone number four. 1225 00:44:01,060 --> 00:44:02,060 OK, guys, thanks. 1226 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,389 Very, very complex talk you gave 1227 00:44:05,390 --> 00:44:06,920 there with a lot of philosophy in it. 1228 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:10,879 But I'm just 1229 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,889 back on the idea of engineer versus 1230 00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:15,439 hacker. You say like the engineers 1231 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,599 using technology or making technology 1232 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,429 a slave of the system. 1233 00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:22,429 How you express that and the hacker 1234 00:44:22,430 --> 00:44:23,750 is different in a way that the 1235 00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:28,309 trust understands the technique and 1236 00:44:28,310 --> 00:44:30,469 tries to use it in different ways. 1237 00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:32,149 I don't know which kind of engineer you 1238 00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:33,949 meant there, but I don't think that you 1239 00:44:33,950 --> 00:44:36,409 can differentiate in this way 1240 00:44:36,410 --> 00:44:38,779 as like a mechanical engineer 1241 00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:41,059 doesn't just use technique 1242 00:44:41,060 --> 00:44:43,249 technique for like 1243 00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:45,169 a living off the system or whatever. 1244 00:44:45,170 --> 00:44:47,599 It's more like an understanding 1245 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,279 as well. And using it in a different way. 1246 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,739 Maybe not like an Hekker, but still 1247 00:44:51,740 --> 00:44:54,169 not just, you know, enslaving it. 1248 00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:56,239 I think I get your question, 1249 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:58,489 but I don't really hear it very 1250 00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:59,599 well there. But I guess you could say 1251 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,849 that my my my critical 1252 00:45:01,850 --> 00:45:04,279 engineer was to omni lateral 1253 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,229 is what he said. 1254 00:45:05,230 --> 00:45:07,429 Yeah, I guess that's 1255 00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:08,839 the point here is that I was trying to 1256 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,269 make is not to say that all engineers 1257 00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:12,649 in the world individually are evil 1258 00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:14,629 person, but that the figure of the 1259 00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:16,999 engineers, the job of the engineer 1260 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,559 is to make a system work. 1261 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,699 Why? 1262 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:21,469 The difference was a figure of the hacker 1263 00:45:21,470 --> 00:45:23,779 is not to how to make it work better, but 1264 00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:26,149 to understand how it works, to be able to 1265 00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:27,539 actually change its use. 1266 00:45:27,540 --> 00:45:29,929 That's what the point of the of the 1267 00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:32,239 comparison is that the answer was. 1268 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,369 Yeah, well, but then there was this 1269 00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:36,109 what I would I say, you know, I think 1270 00:45:36,110 --> 00:45:38,269 it's not that good because an 1271 00:45:38,270 --> 00:45:40,609 engineer much more uses 1272 00:45:40,610 --> 00:45:42,409 the stuff he learns to create something 1273 00:45:42,410 --> 00:45:43,410 new or something 1274 00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:46,519 that but, you know, use a technique in a 1275 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,619 different way. So there's a lot of 1276 00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:50,779 similarity between what a hacker does or 1277 00:45:50,780 --> 00:45:51,679 what an engineer does. 1278 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,079 Just they do it on different aspects, 1279 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,219 if you want. 1280 00:45:55,220 --> 00:45:56,359 I mean, I don't think it's the same thing 1281 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,309 when you work for when you're an engineer 1282 00:45:58,310 --> 00:46:00,469 in Google and when you just set 1283 00:46:00,470 --> 00:46:01,759 up an attack against Stratfor. 1284 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:02,929 I you know, I don't think you actually 1285 00:46:02,930 --> 00:46:04,009 really do the same thing. 1286 00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:05,239 You know, I mean, this is like a big 1287 00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:07,339 difference, you know, in terms of 1288 00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:09,379 what you're fighting for or against or 1289 00:46:09,380 --> 00:46:10,399 whatever. 1290 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,439 All right. So let's make sure we get 1291 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,029 other questions, too. 1292 00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:15,439 We have one question from the Internet. 1293 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,440 At least 1294 00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:21,529 it's good to actually, 1295 00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:23,389 I'll start with the funniest one. 1296 00:46:23,390 --> 00:46:25,219 Are your French. 1297 00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:26,449 No, I'm not. 1298 00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:28,819 OK, but and of 1299 00:46:28,820 --> 00:46:31,139 a guy say that your English is perfect. 1300 00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:32,140 Oh, thanks a lot. 1301 00:46:34,340 --> 00:46:36,829 All right. Microphone number two, please. 1302 00:46:36,830 --> 00:46:38,989 I think if we talk about 1303 00:46:40,310 --> 00:46:42,469 what I found in your presentation 1304 00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:45,139 was that the granularity was individual 1305 00:46:45,140 --> 00:46:46,369 and government. 1306 00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:48,649 But due to my work, I also see 1307 00:46:48,650 --> 00:46:50,749 a lot of attacks 1308 00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:53,239 about criminal organizations which 1309 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:55,249 have budgets ranging into the millions, 1310 00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:57,259 which also use the same techniques for 1311 00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:59,899 blackmailing, holding people ransom. 1312 00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,629 How does this fit into your story? 1313 00:47:01,630 --> 00:47:02,630 And 1314 00:47:03,740 --> 00:47:04,740 I think 1315 00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:08,509 I guess the most I mean, I think 1316 00:47:08,510 --> 00:47:09,799 government is just the mafia. 1317 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,839 That's one of our all the other mafias, 1318 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,939 you know. And so, you know, we're just 1319 00:47:13,940 --> 00:47:14,940 the smartest one. But. 1320 00:47:19,890 --> 00:47:20,890 Microphone number one. 1321 00:47:22,050 --> 00:47:24,329 Yes, I'm wondering, actually, 1322 00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:26,999 it ties into the question that just came, 1323 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,069 you kind of like picture many things 1324 00:47:29,070 --> 00:47:31,169 in terms of some individual and 1325 00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:33,329 the government. But then we also and 1326 00:47:33,330 --> 00:47:35,489 especially when you talk about hackers, 1327 00:47:35,490 --> 00:47:37,170 there is also something like 1328 00:47:38,530 --> 00:47:40,379 like like many, many communities. 1329 00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:42,149 Right? I mean, that's the hacking we are 1330 00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:43,769 meeting here. But if you walk around the 1331 00:47:43,770 --> 00:47:45,839 hall here, you will find like tons of 1332 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,939 sub realities that people are doing 1333 00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:50,159 all kinds of weird stuff, you know, 1334 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:51,449 and interesting stuff on there. 1335 00:47:51,450 --> 00:47:53,099 And many different levels, actually. 1336 00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:55,079 They are hacking at things, you know, 1337 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,509 kind of like economy related or political 1338 00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:59,879 related or some security system 1339 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,039 and so on. But still, it's 1340 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,409 you kind of like identify 1341 00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:06,689 this kind of hacker view 1342 00:48:06,690 --> 00:48:09,449 or perspective or something as a distinct 1343 00:48:09,450 --> 00:48:10,919 way of being in the world. 1344 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,229 Right. And and still, 1345 00:48:13,230 --> 00:48:15,329 what I'm getting is how are 1346 00:48:15,330 --> 00:48:17,609 you transforming 1347 00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:19,739 all of these thoughts and all of these 1348 00:48:19,740 --> 00:48:22,349 attitudes that are around into 1349 00:48:22,350 --> 00:48:23,669 how do you connect it to some kind of 1350 00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:24,719 action? 1351 00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:26,909 And I actually it's 1352 00:48:26,910 --> 00:48:29,309 my job was to talk and not to connect 1353 00:48:29,310 --> 00:48:31,229 all those, but I would really, really 1354 00:48:31,230 --> 00:48:33,209 much like to do it. But I guess I don't 1355 00:48:33,210 --> 00:48:35,249 have that power, unfortunately, or maybe 1356 00:48:35,250 --> 00:48:36,299 fortunately. 1357 00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:37,619 But I guess 1358 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,249 I think one of the interests of 1359 00:48:44,250 --> 00:48:46,469 such a meeting here was so many 1360 00:48:46,470 --> 00:48:47,879 people doing, as you said, so many 1361 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,109 different things on so many different 1362 00:48:49,110 --> 00:48:50,729 levels, actually, to be able to have 1363 00:48:50,730 --> 00:48:52,649 debates like political debates about 1364 00:48:52,650 --> 00:48:54,509 about what makes sense, what doesn't. 1365 00:48:54,510 --> 00:48:56,639 And and basically what you know, 1366 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,919 I talk about ethics in my in my speech. 1367 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,419 And ethics is not a big word. 1368 00:49:00,420 --> 00:49:02,679 Just what is our idea 1369 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,769 of freedom and joy or whatever it is, 1370 00:49:04,770 --> 00:49:06,929 the ethics. And so being 1371 00:49:06,930 --> 00:49:09,179 able to to to 1372 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,899 to to figure out watch 1373 00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:15,029 which are the different 1374 00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:17,399 positions that exist in this Melea 1375 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,619 Hawkins. And since things 1376 00:49:19,620 --> 00:49:22,499 are being done, I mean, in Tottenham, 1377 00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,019 in London, the example I was giving given 1378 00:49:25,020 --> 00:49:26,569 at some point are the police and the 1379 00:49:26,570 --> 00:49:28,079 police didn't have the encryption code 1380 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,219 for Blackberries. 1381 00:49:29,220 --> 00:49:30,599 And of course, we're like, okay, we're 1382 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:31,799 going to give it to you. But what 1383 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,779 happened is that some hackers just 1384 00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:35,939 threaten BlackBerry to to, 1385 00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:37,829 uh, to hack them and to reveal their 1386 00:49:37,830 --> 00:49:39,389 encryption code, which will make their 1387 00:49:39,390 --> 00:49:40,499 their phones useless. 1388 00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:42,179 And so that you don't give the encryption 1389 00:49:42,180 --> 00:49:44,579 codes to the police to help people 1390 00:49:44,580 --> 00:49:45,959 who actually might have been arrested. 1391 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,479 But so I guess that the the 1392 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,669 connection with with what is happening 1393 00:49:50,670 --> 00:49:52,529 outside of the hacker media is is is 1394 00:49:52,530 --> 00:49:54,659 always going. And I think for the last 1395 00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:56,489 years what we've seen is that it has been 1396 00:49:56,490 --> 00:49:59,279 improving and intensifying 1397 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,739 a lot. So I guess we 1398 00:50:01,740 --> 00:50:04,109 just have to continue to still go 1399 00:50:04,110 --> 00:50:05,339 that way. 1400 00:50:05,340 --> 00:50:07,289 So what you see, the communication that 1401 00:50:07,290 --> 00:50:09,179 you are proposing, the way the language 1402 00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:11,369 you're proposing to talk about things and 1403 00:50:11,370 --> 00:50:13,439 the views, but you see this as some kind 1404 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,299 of this kind of debate and discourse and 1405 00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:16,229 whatnot. 1406 00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:18,749 This is kind of like the ground on which 1407 00:50:18,750 --> 00:50:20,609 several actions and like all kinds of 1408 00:50:20,610 --> 00:50:22,109 ways can happen. 1409 00:50:22,110 --> 00:50:23,729 But basically it's important to find some 1410 00:50:23,730 --> 00:50:26,009 kind of language to an effect 1411 00:50:26,010 --> 00:50:28,139 to actually it's 1412 00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:30,209 just a way to try to to open 1413 00:50:30,210 --> 00:50:32,519 a discussion with whoever is willing to 1414 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,810 to to to have it. 1415 00:50:36,010 --> 00:50:38,109 Number two, OK, so if I 1416 00:50:38,110 --> 00:50:40,209 understood you correctly, then you 1417 00:50:40,210 --> 00:50:42,399 said that in a cybernetic society, 1418 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,769 things work to mechanical and 1419 00:50:44,770 --> 00:50:46,929 also the Pirate Party, for example, 1420 00:50:46,930 --> 00:50:49,239 failed because it lacked a vision 1421 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:50,169 somehow. 1422 00:50:50,170 --> 00:50:51,639 Now, my question would be, in your 1423 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,949 opinion, what the what would be a good 1424 00:50:53,950 --> 00:50:56,169 vision and what would be good goals 1425 00:50:56,170 --> 00:50:57,280 for a political party? 1426 00:50:58,330 --> 00:51:00,819 I don't believe in political party, so 1427 00:51:00,820 --> 00:51:01,820 I kept. 1428 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:05,320 I guess. Thank you. 1429 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,939 And number four, just to 1430 00:51:09,940 --> 00:51:11,139 answer, actually was not a way not to 1431 00:51:11,140 --> 00:51:13,209 answer, but I believe that today what 1432 00:51:13,210 --> 00:51:15,339 we need to do is to get organized 1433 00:51:15,340 --> 00:51:17,499 by ourselves with our 1434 00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:19,629 own means and locally 1435 00:51:19,630 --> 00:51:21,159 and linked with everyone else. 1436 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,679 So it's not a I think that there is 1437 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,209 there are ways and there's always been 1438 00:51:25,210 --> 00:51:27,129 historically ways to get organized 1439 00:51:27,130 --> 00:51:28,989 outside of political parties and outside 1440 00:51:28,990 --> 00:51:30,969 of all the political hypocrisy. 1441 00:51:30,970 --> 00:51:32,259 And I think that's the way to go. 1442 00:51:32,260 --> 00:51:33,849 And I think that is what a lot of people 1443 00:51:33,850 --> 00:51:35,229 do spontaneously in the world today. 1444 00:51:40,210 --> 00:51:42,319 You mentioned that those who 1445 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,659 opt out to share the data 1446 00:51:44,660 --> 00:51:46,819 and to be on Facebook and Google may 1447 00:51:46,820 --> 00:51:49,039 become suspect or suspicious 1448 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,649 and they face tougher restrictions 1449 00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:52,369 maybe. 1450 00:51:52,370 --> 00:51:54,499 Do you have a suggestion how to deal 1451 00:51:54,500 --> 00:51:56,929 with that opt out and still 1452 00:51:56,930 --> 00:51:57,930 not be? 1453 00:51:58,940 --> 00:51:59,839 It's not me who said it. 1454 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,029 It's actually Jared Cohen and 1455 00:52:02,030 --> 00:52:03,469 Eric Schmidt and their books called The 1456 00:52:03,470 --> 00:52:04,969 New Digital Age. So, you know, there are 1457 00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:07,429 you know, there are Google CEO and 1458 00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:10,059 and someone important 1459 00:52:10,060 --> 00:52:11,659 in the in the American defense. 1460 00:52:11,660 --> 00:52:12,979 And it is them. 1461 00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:14,839 Just just explain that. 1462 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,939 And, of course, we can really 1463 00:52:16,940 --> 00:52:18,869 easily believe that it will happen in the 1464 00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:21,379 coming years of the 1465 00:52:21,380 --> 00:52:24,110 honestly, beside propagating 1466 00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:27,439 ways for more and more people to be 1467 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,589 anonymous, just like Tale's or 1468 00:52:29,590 --> 00:52:31,699 Attah are doing, just seems to 1469 00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:33,859 me to to be the only way, actually, 1470 00:52:33,860 --> 00:52:35,149 I guess to escape. 1471 00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:37,160 I mean, I don't think that we can we can 1472 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:39,649 be like, oh, we're not going to use the 1473 00:52:39,650 --> 00:52:41,839 Internet at all in the coming year or 1474 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,429 a phone or whatever. I mean, we will 1475 00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:44,809 there's the question is, how do we make 1476 00:52:44,810 --> 00:52:47,059 sure I mean, how do we do the best 1477 00:52:47,060 --> 00:52:49,429 we can so that we maintain Zauner 1478 00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:51,559 capacity on the 1479 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:52,560 networks? 1480 00:52:53,630 --> 00:52:55,039 Thank you. 1481 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,449 All right. We have another question from 1482 00:52:56,450 --> 00:52:57,450 the Internet. 1483 00:52:59,070 --> 00:53:01,559 Um, you mentioned that 1484 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,859 some people might use technology 1485 00:53:04,860 --> 00:53:06,839 as an example on cell phones or social 1486 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,719 media and, um, 1487 00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:12,179 to to fight the blacklist 1488 00:53:12,180 --> 00:53:14,459 and censorship and but 1489 00:53:14,460 --> 00:53:16,649 some people are not wanting 1490 00:53:16,650 --> 00:53:18,099 to use this technology. 1491 00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:19,620 So what could we do 1492 00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:21,959 to ensure that? 1493 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,639 I don't I don't know. I don't have any 1494 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,949 clearer I mean, I honestly 1495 00:53:25,950 --> 00:53:27,449 personally, I don't think that 1496 00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:30,479 all the upheavals in the world would have 1497 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,069 happened for the last five years where 1498 00:53:32,070 --> 00:53:33,419 because of social media. 1499 00:53:33,420 --> 00:53:35,489 But I think that social media are a 1500 00:53:35,490 --> 00:53:37,559 way sometimes to make to 1501 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:38,589 make this happen. 1502 00:53:38,590 --> 00:53:40,579 But there's a story about Algeria. 1503 00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:43,049 I think it was in late 90s. 1504 00:53:43,050 --> 00:53:44,669 There was a huge riot in Incaviglia. 1505 00:53:44,670 --> 00:53:47,329 And the way the the the riots 1506 00:53:47,330 --> 00:53:49,349 will actually spread is that, you know, 1507 00:53:49,350 --> 00:53:51,419 it's made of small hills 1508 00:53:51,420 --> 00:53:53,549 and people in one place 1509 00:53:53,550 --> 00:53:55,889 after some kids were as police 1510 00:53:55,890 --> 00:53:57,949 will set on fire of 1511 00:53:57,950 --> 00:53:59,549 a police station and the people on the 1512 00:53:59,550 --> 00:54:01,649 other side of the of the of the hill 1513 00:54:01,650 --> 00:54:03,299 will just see the smoke and see the 1514 00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:04,529 people there. It will be attacking the 1515 00:54:04,530 --> 00:54:06,539 police and they will attack the police 1516 00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:08,609 again and on and on and on up until 1517 00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:10,469 the whole area was just set on fire. 1518 00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:12,029 So I guess before and they didn't have 1519 00:54:12,030 --> 00:54:13,469 the Internet, so basically managed to 1520 00:54:13,470 --> 00:54:14,939 find ways to communicate and to know what 1521 00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:17,159 was going on. So we do not purely 1522 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,979 obviously and happily 1523 00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:22,269 dependent on the social media 1524 00:54:22,270 --> 00:54:23,270 and on the Internet. 1525 00:54:24,690 --> 00:54:25,860 I think No. Four was next. 1526 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,059 I don't know how to say this in like less 1527 00:54:30,060 --> 00:54:32,489 than five minutes, but, um, 1528 00:54:32,490 --> 00:54:33,809 it would be nice if you did. 1529 00:54:33,810 --> 00:54:35,249 Yeah, I try. 1530 00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:37,559 So collaboration is really hard. 1531 00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,179 And I mean, a lot of technology like 1532 00:54:39,180 --> 00:54:41,289 political parties is useful for 1533 00:54:41,290 --> 00:54:43,469 collaboration between humans to to 1534 00:54:43,470 --> 00:54:45,659 get some sort of society going that 1535 00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:46,769 allows us to 1536 00:54:48,060 --> 00:54:50,129 specialize with our jobs and make up 1537 00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:51,809 this life and whatever, blah, blah, blah. 1538 00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:52,920 And that takes five minutes. 1539 00:54:54,090 --> 00:54:56,159 And I mean, one important part is 1540 00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,649 hacking and political activism 1541 00:54:58,650 --> 00:55:00,749 and revolution or whatever when things 1542 00:55:00,750 --> 00:55:02,429 go wrong. But on the other hand, you also 1543 00:55:02,430 --> 00:55:04,889 do need collaboration and stability 1544 00:55:04,890 --> 00:55:06,869 to have some sort of foundation to to 1545 00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:09,089 base that on. And I feel like what 1546 00:55:09,090 --> 00:55:11,219 you're saying is that we only need 1547 00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:15,329 anarchy and and revolution 1548 00:55:15,330 --> 00:55:17,519 to to function, but that that that 1549 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,709 doesn't feel right to me. 1550 00:55:19,710 --> 00:55:21,359 Can you comment on that? 1551 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,189 I think you make a really strange 1552 00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:25,469 anthropology anthropological point, 1553 00:55:25,470 --> 00:55:27,719 which is that human beings could only 1554 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:29,969 leave and will have only lived 1555 00:55:29,970 --> 00:55:32,249 under power structures, which I don't 1556 00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:33,149 think is true. 1557 00:55:33,150 --> 00:55:34,559 So I don't know what to say. 1558 00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,719 I mean, you start from the point that we 1559 00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:38,789 will need to be Goran's, whatever will 1560 00:55:38,790 --> 00:55:40,979 happen. And I think it's not true 1561 00:55:40,980 --> 00:55:43,139 historically and I don't think it's not 1562 00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:43,889 desirable either. 1563 00:55:43,890 --> 00:55:46,109 But so I, I don't really 1564 00:55:46,110 --> 00:55:47,329 know what to answer. 1565 00:55:47,330 --> 00:55:49,409 I think that your your your your 1566 00:55:49,410 --> 00:55:52,019 what your principles are principles 1567 00:55:52,020 --> 00:55:53,020 is not. 1568 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,339 All right. This there's three more 1569 00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:58,499 persons in line, so that's 1570 00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:00,389 probably the maximum we we will be able 1571 00:56:00,390 --> 00:56:01,619 to take. So no. 1572 00:56:01,620 --> 00:56:02,549 To please. 1573 00:56:02,550 --> 00:56:04,709 Hey, first off, thanks 1574 00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:06,929 very much for not televising 1575 00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:08,189 or recording this talk. 1576 00:56:08,190 --> 00:56:10,289 I think it definitely helps the 1577 00:56:10,290 --> 00:56:12,119 environment for this talk. 1578 00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:13,349 For this topic you're talking about a 1579 00:56:13,350 --> 00:56:15,509 very positive way, makes it easier 1580 00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:17,489 to to engage with you and ask questions. 1581 00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:20,339 But very simply, I'm curious. 1582 00:56:20,340 --> 00:56:21,340 You said you were 1583 00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:25,829 that you you don't believe in political 1584 00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:27,059 parties. I'm just curious. 1585 00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:29,759 Do you think voting 1586 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:31,889 I mean, despite that, do you do you 1587 00:56:31,890 --> 00:56:33,989 also think voting is do you 1588 00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:36,029 think voting can sometimes be useful and 1589 00:56:36,030 --> 00:56:38,099 ethical or do you think voting 1590 00:56:38,100 --> 00:56:40,169 is across the board 1591 00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:40,999 futile? 1592 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,000 And 1593 00:56:43,290 --> 00:56:45,179 it's a really abstract question you ask. 1594 00:56:45,180 --> 00:56:47,649 I mean, if you ask me, great. 1595 00:56:47,650 --> 00:56:49,469 Yeah, I know. But I mean, what I mean is 1596 00:56:49,470 --> 00:56:51,569 that if you ask me if it makes sense, if 1597 00:56:51,570 --> 00:56:53,999 I if I do, I vote for elections. 1598 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,649 So honestly, I have never voted in my 1599 00:56:55,650 --> 00:56:58,019 life. So no, but if you ask me 1600 00:56:58,020 --> 00:57:00,509 if I think that in some 1601 00:57:00,510 --> 00:57:02,579 context it's important 1602 00:57:02,580 --> 00:57:04,959 to have everyone's advice to to, 1603 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,379 to, to, to agree on a decision. 1604 00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:09,029 Yes, I do. It's really important. 1605 00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:11,429 And so, I mean, basically, 1606 00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:13,529 the problem with vote is that it 1607 00:57:13,530 --> 00:57:14,579 makes us believe 1608 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,119 that this will be the only way 1609 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,399 for us to agree or disagree on 1610 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:21,599 things. Why these things are 1611 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,869 different ways that happen 1612 00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:27,629 every at every moment in life. 1613 00:57:27,630 --> 00:57:29,849 So but I do not really believe in 1614 00:57:29,850 --> 00:57:32,249 representative democracy, if that's a 1615 00:57:32,250 --> 00:57:33,269 question that's beyond. 1616 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,889 No, for, um, 1617 00:57:38,890 --> 00:57:40,649 I kind of have the same question as the 1618 00:57:40,650 --> 00:57:43,229 guy who was in front of me, but 1619 00:57:43,230 --> 00:57:45,629 I'll I'll say it in a little bit stronger 1620 00:57:45,630 --> 00:57:48,119 way. So your revolution 1621 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,399 is successful. The government is gone 1622 00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,479 now. You have Blackwater, 1623 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,859 G4S, bunch of mafias 1624 00:57:55,860 --> 00:57:57,989 are growing up and now they want to start 1625 00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:58,990 another governor. 1626 00:57:59,650 --> 00:58:01,899 How you have 48 hours 1627 00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:03,999 before the people start to starve and how 1628 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,579 are you going to set up a system, 1629 00:58:06,580 --> 00:58:08,709 UN system, what is it going to 1630 00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:10,899 look like after the 1631 00:58:10,900 --> 00:58:12,159 revolution is successful? 1632 00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:12,819 Thank you. 1633 00:58:12,820 --> 00:58:14,590 So that's a real interesting question. 1634 00:58:16,450 --> 00:58:18,279 But also it's a pretty strange way 1635 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,349 because I think that this question has 1636 00:58:20,350 --> 00:58:22,209 never been proposed in history this way, 1637 00:58:22,210 --> 00:58:24,159 because most of the time, you know, when 1638 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,319 when when a government is 1639 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,569 defeated, it's not defeated from 1640 00:58:28,570 --> 00:58:30,819 a second to the next is defeated after 1641 00:58:30,820 --> 00:58:32,679 people get organized together. 1642 00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,029 People managed to I mean, if you take 1643 00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:36,699 60, you know, at some point the peasants 1644 00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:39,009 give give money to the people on strike, 1645 00:58:39,010 --> 00:58:41,349 etc.. And so the bet is that 1646 00:58:41,350 --> 00:58:43,929 the very process of restoring government 1647 00:58:43,930 --> 00:58:46,419 is also what gives us 1648 00:58:46,420 --> 00:58:48,489 the hints of how to get organized 1649 00:58:48,490 --> 00:58:50,469 differently. And because what we know 1650 00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:52,979 that, you know, what happens in 1651 00:58:52,980 --> 00:58:55,039 is a really famous quote from 1652 00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,099 the court during the Paris Commune where 1653 00:58:57,100 --> 00:58:58,569 he just writes to his mother and he's 1654 00:58:58,570 --> 00:59:01,299 like, you know, Paris Commune and 1655 00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:02,919 his mother. And he's like, oh, you know, 1656 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,569 Paris has never been so beautiful. 1657 00:59:04,570 --> 00:59:06,339 Life has never been so, so easy. 1658 00:59:06,340 --> 00:59:08,739 People are like good to each other. 1659 00:59:08,740 --> 00:59:11,079 And the belief is that 1660 00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,359 when it's a normal situations, normal 1661 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:14,829 situation of power is just 1662 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,739 when you enter a state of exception. 1663 00:59:17,740 --> 00:59:20,109 Actually, you end up you have 1664 00:59:20,110 --> 00:59:22,539 to to behave 1665 00:59:22,540 --> 00:59:24,939 in a different manner than during 1666 00:59:24,940 --> 00:59:25,569 the normal way. 1667 00:59:25,570 --> 00:59:27,729 So when and, you know, there's 1668 00:59:27,730 --> 00:59:29,139 a reason why your question is tricky, 1669 00:59:29,140 --> 00:59:30,429 that there's a long revolutionary 1670 00:59:30,430 --> 00:59:32,529 tradition of Marxist 1671 00:59:32,530 --> 00:59:34,359 Suk's, which was like, oh, the revolution 1672 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,859 is going to be this and that and this and 1673 00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:37,629 that. And of course, every time it goes, 1674 00:59:37,630 --> 00:59:39,279 it goes well, we just just like it just 1675 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:40,309 gives people and the layers. 1676 00:59:40,310 --> 00:59:42,189 It was for the sake of revolution. 1677 00:59:42,190 --> 00:59:44,379 We do not come from this political 1678 00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:45,699 I mean, we come from a political 1679 00:59:47,050 --> 00:59:49,749 tradition that takes its roots in 1680 00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:52,149 more in the Paris Commune and in Spain, 1681 00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:54,579 sort of six and maybe in 1682 00:59:54,580 --> 00:59:55,369 May 68. 1683 00:59:55,370 --> 00:59:57,489 And in the fact that 1684 00:59:57,490 --> 01:00:00,009 we believe in the autonomous 1685 01:00:00,010 --> 01:00:01,869 capacity of people to get organized by 1686 01:00:01,870 --> 01:00:03,279 themselves and not to starve. 1687 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,399 I mean, no people as ever starved 1688 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:07,659 because they were left alone by the 1689 01:00:07,660 --> 01:00:08,199 government. 1690 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,449 Government are starving people to death 1691 01:00:10,450 --> 01:00:12,639 a lot of time, but people by themselves, 1692 01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,369 when there's no governments, they handle 1693 01:00:14,370 --> 01:00:15,370 themselves. 1694 01:00:16,180 --> 01:00:18,249 And it's not it's not a crazy belief. 1695 01:00:18,250 --> 01:00:21,069 I mean, people can handle their shit 1696 01:00:21,070 --> 01:00:23,350 by themselves. I mean, it's true. 1697 01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:30,089 OK, I'm sorry, but we're running out of 1698 01:00:30,090 --> 01:00:32,279 time, so thanks again 1699 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:33,449 for your talk. Thanks a lot. 1700 01:00:40,990 --> 01:00:42,969 I guess if you want to discuss further, 1701 01:00:42,970 --> 01:00:44,319 just come over here. 1702 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:44,769 Yeah, definitely. 1703 01:00:44,770 --> 01:00:46,269 And I've got the papers for that one. 1704 01:00:46,270 --> 01:00:47,829 I mean, people are still willing.