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[Music]
so we're going to start up with a movie
short movie one
minute
[Music]
and
[Music]
for
[Music]
so I'm very happy and I'm asking you for
a big
Applause the title of the talk is
surveillance date limited by acts of
courage and here is our speaker it's
Robert tibo and I'm asking to applaud
now
thanks thanks very
much well thank you thank you to uh the
computer chaos conference uh Congress um
for inviting me here uh again this year
and uh thank you for everybody for
showing up and for your support for Mr
Snowden and the Snowden refugees um what
I'm going to do is um this year I have a
a PowerPoint as in past years a
PowerPoint presentation but with a lot
more slides um there's going to be a
fair amount of information I'm going to
disclose today so um if there'll be a
certain part of it that's a bit
technical but once we get through that
then I'll go to the the big points on
what's happened to my clients over the
last year um so I'll start with the
presentation all right now as as you're
all aware uh Mr Snowden was in Hong Kong
2013 and that's where he made his
disclosures about the NSA um egregious
illegal and criminal conduct of
basically using electronic Mass
surveillance to spy on on pretty much
every country in the world he's and he's
currently in Exile in Russia as we all
know and here are the Snowden
refugees and I'll just introduce them
and in case not everybody's familiar but
on the left is Vanessa she's from the
Philippines uh but beside her to her
left is AI from Sri Lanka a former
Soldier and to ai's left is nadika from
Sri Lanka and her partner
supun so nadika and suun have two
children the little boy danath was
actually born in 2016 so he he has not
had the chance to meet Mr Snowden yet
and the little girl at the foot of
nadika that's
sepd and then beside her is Kian
K's the daughter of um Vanessa on the
far left hand
side as for myself um since last year uh
basically uh systematic efforts by the
Hong Kong government um from the
immigration
department to Legal
Aid to the
police um there are parallel efforts
basically to put pressure on me and I'll
go into detail on on exactly what
happened but uh the Hong Kong police
were basically arresting uh several
witnesses that were testifying for the
Snowden
refugees and the police were putting it
to coercing attempting to coers these
these Witnesses and some of them were my
clients to make a case uh criminal case
against me
and it was at the point that the Hong
Kong police attended my former residents
in Hong Kong looking for me seven police
officers that I realized I needed to
reach out and get help and it was time
for me to leave Hong Kong so I received
assistance from the Canadian government
advice and assistance and also lawyers
Without Borders Canada who uh whom I'm
very grateful to I left on the 30th of
November 2017 and I've not able to
renter into Hong Kong
now what had happened was the
immigration department from late 2016 to
right up to the end of 2017 early 2018
had basically used different tactics to
overwhelm me with work uh to make it
administratively possible for me to do
my job um when that didn't work the
immigration department had um actually
made applications to the duty lawyer
service to the Hong Kong Bar Association
and to the torture claim appeal board
basically seeking to have me removed
from acting for the Snowden refugees in
their
appeals uh the legal aid department
basically has stopped paying me my fees
and those fees go back to
2012 and the duty lawyer service has
paid only a small fraction of my fees
and have delayed payment over
years uh the torture claim appeal board
FASTT track the Snowden Refugee cases uh
usually in Hong Kong when a an appeal is
filed
just bear with me a
second when appeal is filed it usually
takes about a year or more before an
appeal is actually brought up to be
heard but in the Snowden refugees case
in 2017 it only took three weeks before
the cases were called up only the
Snowden Refugee
[Music]
cases now what had happened in uh this
was unknown known to us and unknown to
me till August 2017 but the Hong Kong
police they had been investigating the
SRI lanan police incursion into Hong
Kong targeting my
clients but in fact what they were doing
is they were investigating the witnesses
for the Snowden refugees and the Snowden
refugees and
myself and in August last year one of
the key witnesses to the Sri Lankan
police coming to Hong Kong looking for
the snow refugees where he was arrested
by the police he was denied a lawyer and
actually I'm his lawyer and the Hong
Kong police denied access to have let me
have access to my
client and as I mentioned earlier the
police were at my house actively
searching for
me
now what what's happened in Hong Kong
and what's happening in many democracies
around the world our governments are
becoming increasingly
authoritarian and governments seek to
obtain information private data on
civilians but at the same
time these governments government
departments don't want to disclose
anything so as part of this presentation
I'm going to be disclosing you know the
identities of certain people as part of
making Hong Kong a little more
transparent but it's these two police
officers breaker
low and Miss yungan Wing these are the
two officers
that arbitrarily arrested and
arbitrarily detained the witnesses to
the Snowden Refugee cases and these are
the officers
who made systematic attempts to coers a
number of witnesses to testify against
me from what I understand they were
asking my clients to say that I made up
the story about the Sri Lankan police
coming into Hong
Kong and
um my clients told the truth that I
never said any such things to them and
in fact they explained they're the ones
who were the witnesses and informed
me now just to give you a wider context
uh this is Mark Andre Sean he's the lead
Canadian lawyer for the Montreal legal
team which is handling the refugee
claims by this snow refugees in in
Ottawa Canada okay and in February
2018 um Mr
San was in Hong Kong and as he was
leaving Hong Kong at the airport there
were seven police officers waiting for
him as he boarded the
aircraft and this was clearly an act of
harassment and intimidation but the Hong
Kong government the Hong Kong police
force made it clear they wanted to send
a message to Mr
Sean Mr Sean went back to Hong Kong in
July
2018 and he went directly from the
airport to see one of the Snowden
Refugee families and then went to a
public area that was actually at the top
of a building where you wouldn't expect
anyone and it turns out two plain closed
police officers had followed and
basically had Mr Sean under surveillance
and followed him right to the
roof so Mr Sean was in Hong Kong both
times to meet with the Snowden
refugees so you have a situation where
the lawyers are being attacked they're
being harassed by the Hong Kong
authorities and um
um you know I'm I'm going to be going
through you know other departments that
have been part of this um you know
systematic um uh harassment on myself
and the other lawyers but the at the end
of the day to attack lawyers who are
simply doing their job acting without
fear or favor is really an attack on the
Snowden
refugees and it sends a message that
it's an attack on any vulnerable person
that's entitled
to legal
representation okay what it is is it's
an attack on the core of rule of
law now with
immigration um they had obstructed Me by
Expediting um the Snowden Refugee cases
at first
instance they had asked the Judy law
service to remove me from the cases they
did the same thing with the torture
claim appeal board and the student
refugees cases are at the appeal stage
right
now and the immigration department made
a formal complaint to the Hong Kong Bar
Association saying that Mr tibo should
not be representing these clients
because he knows them too
well and I was stunned by this
complaint and what the Hong Kong Bar
Association has done is they've grabbed
the hold of that complaint with the full
intention of proceeding against me in
disciplinary proceeding
ultimately the goal of immigration is is
is to have me removed as the lawyer for
the Snowden refugees or at a minimum
prevent me from providing effective
legal
representation the legal aid
department after the Snowden film came
out in
2016 they completely they stopped the
majority of my payment and due to me for
years and it's a significant amount and
at this stage they're not paying me
anything they also struck me off the
legal aid list for doing Refugee work in
the courts so there's no way for me to
ever do work in the courts for
refugees unless I do it on a pro bono
basis and completely unrelated to this I
had done a significant amount of work in
in criminal law in the high
court um and the legal aid department
stopped instructing me for these cases
for no reason at all
and this despite under Hong Kong's
Constitution that anyone who's a
criminal defendant or an appellant has a
constitutional right to choose their
lawyer that is their absolute
right what this has done is it's put
enorm enormous Financial stress on
myself it's left me significantly
distressed in my ability to practice law
and represent my
clients
now the duty lawyer service and I I have
the administrator Grace Wong and Kenneth
Chan is the chief Court leaz an officer
um and they these basically are the two
key people operating the duty lower
service but over the last uh year or so
um they've only paid about 24% of my
fees and they've systematically delayed
payment and they've removed me from They
removed me from two of the three Snowden
cases
but what I would say is that I still
represent the snow refugees but
privately through a cister who instructs
me and the duty lawyer service
systematically stripped most of my
clients away from me during this past
year and then in November 2016 just a
little over a month
ago uh the duty lawyer service
basically you know expressly St they
didn't trust me they didn't trust my
professional
competence and at that point despite the
clients all trusting me the actual
clients I was under illegal ethical
obligation to resign from all my cases I
had no
choice the Hong Kong Bar
Association now the Snowden film was
premiered on the 9th of September in
2016 in Toronto at the Toronto
International Film
Festival and on the 19th of January
2017 the Hong Kong Bar Association held
its annual general meeting where they
there's an election for new bar chairman
and uh Vice chairman of the
bar and at
that annual general
meeting uh Bar Council Members raised my
identity through my
nationality and accused me of breaching
provisions of the bar code for my
assistance and my involvement with Mr
Edward Snowden Snowden
refugees and I had been warned by a
fellow Barrister who very discreetly
warned me that the bar association is
looking for a
way to cause a lot of trouble for
you and
um and and at that point there had never
been any complaints against Me by any of
my
clients and there were no complaints
about from the Snowden refugees there
are no complaints from anyone as far as
I knew about the work I'd been doing for
the Snowden refugees and Mr
Snowden so this is going to get a little
bit technical if you can bear with
me less than two months later I received
a letter on the 8th of March and it was
a formal complaint by the standing
committee on discipline saying
that basically accusing me of bringing
the bar association into
disrepute that I had put the Snowden
refugees lives in danger or I put them
in a difficult position and the second
thing was I did all of
this to make money for
myself which is
ridiculous the basis of the complaint
was an anonymous complaint the evidence
for the complaint
none it was completely an anonymous
complaint there was no information
provided where the anonymous complaint
came from how many people there were how
it was delivered so between April and
May 2017 I wrote to the bar association
saying look I need to find out more
about what this anonymous complaint is
and I asked for disclosure how it was
delivered if they knew who the
complaintant was or if there was more
than one um internal
Communications what had concerned me was
the racist and malicious conduct of the
Bar Association members at the annual
general meeting in January that they had
chosen to identify me based on my
nationality and they had done so behind
my
back in the 8th of March complaint the
bar association listed two pages of
questions which were wide in scope and
ambiguous and they had mostly to do with
Mr Snowden and I realized this was a
fishing Expedition and they had
absolutely no evidence on on
anything so I asked for Disclosure by
the 9th of June why the 9th of
June of
2017 because for 12 years I had a
spotless
record i' done nothing wrong at any time
but the Hong Kong Bar Association
decided last year in parallel with the
anonymous Snowden complaint to raise a
5-year-old complaint
where I was accused of being impolite to
a
prosecutor who failed to disclose
evidence in the middle of a criminal
trial this is this is a trivial
complaint that should never be
entertained by any bar disciplinary
tribunal and the lawyer representing me
was Mr Gman at the time a queen's
counsel and he communicated to the bar
disciplinary
tribunal that it was beyond his
comprehension why 5 years after a
complaint is made that it should be
suddenly prosecuted
now and he described the complaints as a
disgrace and trivial rubbish those are
his
words but in any event the bar
association was in a rush to have this
case brought against me now one thing I
should explain is with bar disciplinary
tribunal proceedings in Hong Kong I have
no insurance to protect me so whatever
the legal costs are of the proceedings I
have to bear
them with Duty lawyer legal aid not
paying me holding my funds from me I
didn't have enough funds to fight
this fight something that was so trivial
that I've been advised by my lawyer and
and London Jeffrey Robertson who's who's
also Julian assange's lawyer and lawyers
in Canada and lawyers Without Borders
Canada that no bar association would
ever have brought this to disciplinary
proceedings
so I admitted the complaints for the
simple reason that I couldn't afford the
legal risk I'd be bankrupted if I fought
it and without disclosure from the Hong
Kong bar on the Snowden complaint and
the racist remarks at the annual general
meeting in January
2017 I didn't trust my instincts were I
didn't
trust that I'd be receiving a fair
Hearing in any event I was I was legal
costs were wed against me of over €1,000
EUR which I I didn't have I still don't
have and as for the anonomous complaint
my request for disclosure it still
hadn't been made which raised a lot of
suspicions in my
mind and then shortly after this
parallel complaint was decided against
me the bar association finally made some
disclosure but
minimal and then I discovered
there are these two complaints
completely Anonymous unsigned and if you
look at the bottom it says large group
of exasperated
barters and this was a
shock and if you look at the date it's
the 9th of September
2016 The Bar Council the standing
committee on discipline since the 9th of
September 2016 had concealed and hidden
this from me in March 8th 2017 when they
brought the formal anonymous complaint
against me the bar association all they
had to do was attach that to the
original
complaint but they chose to conceal this
to hide
it what kind of a bar association
behaves in such a
way now looking at the complaints from
these two two large groups
they say that I allowed myself to be
quoted and then have photos taken of me
and
others and then they say my clients were
put in
danger not none of my clients have
complained none of my clients have said
you put me in danger or you put us in
danger I never provided specific details
on when the clients were
located now number two these persons now
will never be able to be resettled in a
third country to remind everybody in
Hong Kong there's a 2% acceptance rate
of
refugees my clients had a chance of
winning their Refugee cases that's
2% about 120 cases since 1992 have been
accepted out of close to 40,000 Refugee
claims so the bars who wrote this seemed
to be completely ignorant of the fact
that refugees have pretty much a zero
chance of ever succeeding and as such
ever being
resettled now they said this was
disgraceful that I should be visiting Mr
Snowden in Moscow as Snowden is an
international fugitive on every Interpol
stop that's like telling a heart surgeon
don't go into the operating room because
there's going to be blood
there that's like telling a medical
doctor don't treat somebody who's been
arrested by the police cuz they're a bad
person that's telling a criminal lawyer
which I am don't defend the
innocent don't defend Mr
Snowden he's guilty already that's what
the Hong Kong Bar Association is
saying and they said this was all highly
damaging to the
bar I I ask Philip Dykes the chairman of
the bar association I ask Robert Pang of
the the vice chairman of the bar
association what damage has come to the
Hong Kong Bar Association because I
defended Mr Snowden because I defended
the Snowden
refugees and one thing I'll say is the
Hong Kong bar about Mr Snowden and the
Snowden refugees have said nothing about
Mr snowden's extraordinary acts of
disclosure of criminal conduct they've
said nothing
ever and they've said nothing about the
Snowden refugees they've remained silent
ENT so here's the
problem two large groups
of unknown barters all deciding to
remain anonymous this could be one
Barrister it could be hundreds it could
be thousands there's a little bit less
than 2,000 barers in Hong Kong so every
single barister could have been part of
these two groups complaining about me
for doing my work for Mr Snowden and the
Snowden refugees
and there's no way for me to identify
which members of the bar association are
not part of the large group of
exasperated
barters And I stress
again I wasn't aware of that until
August
3rd if you look at the trivial complaint
of me being accused of being rude to a
prosecutor there were two barristers on
the bar disciplinary
tribunal how how do I know they were not
included in the large group of
exasperated barrs so let me put it this
way it's like the police arrest any one
of
you take you into a court criminal court
and there's a judge sitting in the court
and you say to the judge I'd like to
have disclosure of the evidence against
me and the police says no we're not
going to show it to you the prosecution
says we're not going to show it to you
and the judge says we're not going to
show it to
you
you're found guilty and then after being
found guilty you find out who complained
against you it was a large group of
Judges so this is what's exactly
happened in Hong Kong in my
case the people investigating
me could be in the large group of
barristers and the people who judged me
are also barrs could have been in that
group so what the Hong Kong Bar
Association did is they brought
themselves into
disgrace they created a
procedure that was inherently unfair and
potentially biased if I had known about
these complaints I would have never
submitted myself to this jurisdiction
and admitted to the facts I would have
ignored it
all so that judgment against me is
illegal and the fine against me the cost
orderers
void and the reason for that is the Hong
Kong bar association's
concealment of all of
this Mr Robertson Jeffrey Robertson also
a s lawyer advised me and I had wrote to
the bar
association
that in England Australia and Canada no
bar
tribunal would act on an anonymous
complaint absolutely not because there's
the risk it's motivated by malice and
Prejudice so you have to think about in
January 2017 when at the annual general
meeting the Hong Kong Bar Council
Members pointed pointed me out by my
nationality and made remarks against me
that there was no evidence
for Robertson advised that could have
come from the CIA or another
intelligence
agency and as for disclosure robt and
and as I know myself pointed out that to
have a fair
procedure the accused should has a right
to know who the accuser is and has a
right to see the evidence before
him the bar also wanted information on
clients Mr Snowden and the Snowden
refugees that are privileged and
confidential and there is absolutely no
way Mr Snowden or the Snowden refugees
would allow me to would wave privilege
and allow me to disclose that never
nevertheless the bar association
continues to proceed against me so
there's three fatal problems with what
the bar association
did the anonymous complaint they should
not and cannot proceed on it it came
from a large group of
barers who for all I know are the same
people who are in the bar in the
standing committee on
discipline uh the same people in the bar
Council and the same people in the bar
disciplinary
tribunal and that it's quite clear that
the complaint because it's all about Mr
Snowden that it's politically
motivated and the targeting of Me based
on my nationality indicates that it's
also
malicious and this is what Mr
Robertson's talking
about lawyers Without Borders requested
disclosure lawyers Without Borders
Canada intervened and requested
disclosure from the bar
association Bar Association said no it's
confidential and privileged
how can an anonymous person have that
kind of confidentiality and privilege so
the bar association is trying to defend
Unknown People which makes no
sense because no confidentiality or
privilege exists so this is again
continued concealment by the Hong Kong
Bar
Association now after a year you know
why why why was all this happening but
after a year the Hong Kong Bar
Association brought five new complaints
against
me what they're doing here is they're
trying to grab data trying to grab
intelligence okay at the same time they
don't want to disclose anything to me
and they want to prosecute me in these
quas criminal
proceedings and this is the same thing
that big government
does they want to reach out and they
want all the information from everybody
but they don't want to be transparent
and be
accountable and as Ed Snowden said in
citizen 4 in the hands of a system whose
reach is unlimited but whose safeguards
are
not
now on on a higher level on an
overarching level when you have
organizations that are core to rule of
law that want information for example on
Mr Snowden detailed information but at
the same time won't even disclose to me
as the bar for Mr Snowden what evidence
they have against me to prosecute me all
based on anonymous complaint this is all
about government overreaching its
boundaries and at the same time not
wanting to disclose not wanting to be
transparent not wanting to be
accountable I'd like to mention Robert
Pang uh Robert Pang is now the
spokesperson for the Hong Kong Bar
Association on the matters that I've
raised publicly about my
treatment now I just highlight he was a
bar council member and the chairman on
the standing committee on discipline in
2016 then he continued as the vice
chairman of the bar in 2017 and the year
after
2018 at the same time he was also
director of the lawyer service
Council now Mr Pang had in his hands the
anonymous complaints from the very
beginning he was privy to that
information from the very
beginning and he's now the spokesman for
the honken bar association Mr Pang said
recently oh it's we're not relying on
the anonymous complaint anymore we were
never relying on it but the original
complaint said anonymous
complaint
I asked for disclosure including the bar
minutes The Bar Council minutes from
meetings stating that they're not
proceeding on the anonymous complaints
that has never been disclosed to me then
Mr Pang said there's an identified
complainant for two years I've asked for
a disclosure of
that no identification of a complainant
and Mr Pang by saying that after 2 years
saying there's an identified complainant
that's completely unethical to have
hidden that from me for 2 years but it
doesn't matter because there is no
identified complainant Cuz Mr Pang was
asked for the identified complainant as
Identity or her identity and it was
never given
given so what the bar association did is
they brought in another five complaints
against me for not replying for to their
demands for disclosure of my information
on my clients and my
cases so they're using their powers to
punish me for not disclosing but at the
same time I had written to the bar
association saying please disclose to me
all the evidence you have against me and
then I'll take advice from Mr Robertson
Queen's Council and then I'll reply to
you they never disclosed instead after a
year they brought fresh proceedings
against me for not replying which is a
lie I did
reply now I'd like to go back in history
a little bit and this goes back to rule
of law
okay mouth of the Lion in Venice in the
in the 14th centuries
um what had happened
was post boxes of a lion's face were put
in and people could put in Anonymous
complaints criminal complaints and by
the late 14th century there was the
Council of 10 that would decide who they
would prosecute based on Anonymous
complaints almost two centuries later
Venice government decided Well we have
to make sure there are three Witnesses
this was a reign of
terror and as Mark Twain had had stated
that you know there were the terrible
Lion's mouths these were the throats
down which went the anonymous accusation
thrust in secretly in the dead of night
by the enemy that doomed many an
innocent
man this kind of behavior is not rule of
law and I'm pointing out to you the way
human beings have behaved in history
there's also the existence of the star
Chambers which existed between the 15th
and 18th century in England but today
they're basically referred to as legal
administrative bodies which making
strict or arbitrary ruling with
secretive procceedings
and John Cameron Queen's Council in
Canada in describing the way the Hong
Kong Bar Association is behaving says
does this remind you of the Star Chamber
complainants and adjudicators protected
from public accountability in a
professional body engaged to protect the
public steper aora has written
extensively
about all that's
happened in Hong Kong with myself and my
clients but basically how this is an
attack by powerful government and the
bar
association really attacking seven
vulnerable people who helped Mr
Snowden and
John Cameron the Queen's
Council had said that if an anonymous
complaint came to him if he was a Bar
Council uh chairman he'd throw it in the
bin and that's
exactly what should have been done in
Hong Kong but was not Manfred nowick the
former un special reporter on torture
commented on the bar hongkong bar
association's behavior and says that
current actions against tibo could only
be explained by the fact that probably
enormous pressure from outside is
exercised all over Stone discussed the
hongkong bar association and the
government's treatment saying it was
outrageous now going to the Snowden
refugees at the very
bottom Oliver Stones quoted in in the
National Post of
Canada he talks about Snowden I think he
helped Humanity by pointing out a
situation I think is intolerable
still and then he talks about the people
who helped them were human beings and in
a way it's about human beings against
governments so in summary you've seen
the Hong Kong government abusing its
powers against seven vulnerable people
using disproportionate
Resources Canada continually delays
knowing very well that it's not safe for
the Snowden refugees in Hong Kong and
they've done nothing to make a
decision the Sri Lankan government
having come into Hong on threatened my
clients so why are these seven the only
seven Snowden refugees on the entire
planet why are they so special to these
governments and why has Canada
delayed and in my view this comes down
to the Snowden refugees are something
they represent something that every
government is afraid
of that they have the moral strength and
conscience to do the right thing despite
being deprived of of everything in Hong
Kong that they don't fear the government
and that they're willing to protect
whistleblowers and they represent a
force of transparency and
[Applause]
accountability and stone is asking and
he was quoted on the 29th of November
2018 why hasn't Canada taken in these
people you know they'd be an asset
just last over a week ago Justin trau
talked about Canada signing up to the
global compact on on
migration and he says Canadians should
be proud of this that we're showing
leadership on one of the important
issues around the world which is
migrations and
immigration and we're demonstrating that
rigorous systems and an open policy
actually leads to economic growth and
economic advantages in stronger
communities and being able to do this in
a way that shows Global Leadership and
of course does not Impe on our own
sovereignty is something that Canadians
should be proud
of but Trudeau's done he does he's done
nothing he's spoken he's not spoken
about the Snowden refugees and no
decision has been made on their cases
and what we don't understand is through
the legal team in Montreal an NGO is set
up and we've raised funds to pay for
everything for the Snowden refugees in
coming to Canada and living in Canada so
there's no cost to the taxpayer so why
has Trudeau why has the minister of
immigration I met Hussein a former
Refugee himself who obtained Refugee
status in Canada why have they done
nothing why does Canada continue to
tolerate that the people who are asking
for protection to be left at risk in
fear and deprived of their dignity why
has Canada not made a decision why did
they continue to drag their
feet so
there's a
standoff Hong Kong doesn't want to
decide the cases Canada doesn't want to
decide the
cases I have no doubt if Canada rejects
the cases Hong Kong will reject them so
we have two jurisdictions two states
dancing around the Snowden refugees and
forgetting about them and this is
disgraceful I'll come back to this later
but
this has been going on for more than two
years now and the clients do need
everybody's support and that means
financial support but I'll talk about
that later what I'd like to do
is to have a short
Q&A and then after the Q&A I'm going to
proceed to another another
issue so if anybody has any questions
I'll take questions for about five
minutes need that yeah I'm
have with that okay so do we have
questions oh we have a signal from the
internet can I please listen to the
question uh okay we have a a couple of
questions here uh the first one
is as Hong Kong is increasingly under
pressure from China where harassment of
human right lawyers is routine do you
think China is involved in this case and
if so is it based on pressure from the
US or is it profession
the the last part I couldn't
understand you you talked about
something about China something about
the US uh yes do you think the China is
involved in this case and if so is it
based on pressure friendly
USA
um as man manfre Noak had pointed out
there's in his view it's likely there's
a powerful outside force putting
pressure on the Hong Kong bar on the
Hong Kong government um one thing I
should mention is
mainland China is the largest weapons
and arms supplier to Sri
Lanka and there's clearly an interest of
the Mainland Chinese not to have Sri
Lanka criticized the second issue is
Beijing and Hong Kong do not want ethnic
minorities in their jurisdiction
particularly not
refugees okay China's ethnocentric in
its
politics and at the same
time Hong Kong is not a Multicultural
Society so The Narrative of the Snowden
refugees is not consistent with The
Narrative of the Hong Kong government
the Hong Kong government is there's no
such thing as refugees or Asylum Seekers
they're all illegal migrants they've
only come in here to take money away
from us as for the United States I have
no doubt that the United States and the
other five eyes have an interest in what
happens in Hong Kong and I have no doubt
they're putting pressure on
Canada okay
so do you want to go on with the next
question from the internet uh yes and
also are you surprised about how the
other party strikes you so hard during
this
case um what uh are you surprised about
how you got strick so hard during the
case I I was surprised that the Hong
Kong
government uh were the instigators the
government that's supposed to Pro
provide International protection to
refugees and Asylum Seekers that it was
the very party that my clients have put
their trust into is the party that's
attacked them and their
lawyer and this is disgraceful and this
whole conduct was a surprise in the
beginning but as things progressed I
realized that uh Hong Kong is not a
democracy it's an authoritarian system
where the leaders are the majority of
the leaders and the leadership of Hong
Kong is appointed by Beijing so this is
a this is a jurisdiction that has had
Democratic freedoms and constitutional
rights steadily eroded over the last
couple years so no it wasn't a surprise
in the end um because quite clearly the
Hong Kong government has no interest in
listening to its Society they have no
interest in listening to their wants
needs and
concerns okay
thanks so if I see that right we have
one question over
there no not
really
okay oh there's another one yes
please my number two um excuse me do you
think there's a connection to the huaai
case the which case the huawai case the
daughter of the boss of huawai main
investor is being held in Canada for a
very well difficult legal issue and I
think they are playing a very Brut game
here don't they um the it it's Huawei
Huawei is the Telecom company yes I
understand um uh the the treatment of
the Snowden refugees uh is just part and
parcel
of you know the discrimination and
racism that exists uh in Hong Kong and
and in Mainline China against ethnic
minorities um and I I don't think
there's any direct link to the hwayi
case but
um that's a completely different subject
which uh I really don't have time to
address uh today okay I think that's
also okay and I don't see any more
questions oh there's another one hello
so I think that's the last question yes
last question yeah
thanks uh micro number
one hi uh thank you for work um second
is there were there any attempts by your
colleague bya colleagues in Hong Kong to
maybe also isure
statement of a even larger anonymous
group or something like that sorry I
were there any attempts by your
colleagues uh the Hong Kong barer
Association to also issue a statement or
to make a counter complaint and then
sign it you know larger anonymous group
or in any have you have you received any
support from your colleagues no
absolutely none not not the only
colleague that was sympath itic and and
supported me was the person who said
your your nationality was raised at the
annual Journal meeting in January 2017
please be careful uh they recognized I
had done nothing wrong that was the only
time okay thanks it's very hard to to
hear that and the more I'm happy that
you're here and I think you got a little
surprise for us right I I do I have
somebody who's visiting right now and
I'd like to bring them on uh the person
on the
screen okay so can we please
get hello good evening this is Vanessa
one of the snow
refugees hi Vanessa how are
you yeah okay all right bit nervous
right now all right don't don't be
nervous nervous um is there anything you
want to tell the audience today about
your situation in Hong
Kong um yes um thank you so
much
um for supporting us for our difficult
time and um now our lawyer is not here
in Hong
Kong um because um the Hong Kong bar
um the H bar
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um I'm sorry I'm just little bit nervous
yeah
um the the Hong bar
um um Vanessa was was it the Hong Kong
was it the Hong Kong bar that caused me
to Mo Hong
Kong yeah the Hong Kong bar
sorry now Mr robero is not here in Hong
Kong because the Hong Kong bar they
bring
a Anonymous um complaints against to Mr
tibo and uh the Hong Kong bar is trying
to
deive um me and other Southern
Refugee uh Mr
TBO of our being a
lawyer and uh it's not Refugee never
complained about Mr
TBO to the Hong Kong bar and uh the Hong
Kong
bar um put me and my daughter at
risk and uh it is a
shameful to the Hong Kong bar what has
done to Mr Tio and the Hong Kong bar uh
they never
help um never care the snow Refuge
and
um for the
justo um the prime minister of Canada
right yeah yes the prime Min minister in
Canada she talks
about um
helping Refugee why it's a difficult for
s,
refugee in the world and
um uh why is delaying why he's not
making decision
now and um we are not safe in Hong
Kong uh we canot go back
to our home
country and
um I hope they make the decisions now
so stop delaying make the decisions
now all right thank you
Vanessa thank
you if I if I just may step in very
shortly
um would you you don't have to thank us
we have to thank you
for does any does anyone have any
questions for Vanessa yeah do you have
questions you have the chance to ask
directly don't be
shy
okay I don't see any questions all
right you see they're all excited as
well so everybody is
nervous right if there's no questions
there's no no questions there's one
question
okay okay microphone one please ask a
question yeah I'd like to know how is
life for refugees in Hong Kong so do you
feel there's any public support for
refugees in Hong Kong and how is your
quality of living in general thank you
um what I'm
said uh for my all my interview I don't
as a as a refugee or Asylum Seeker in
Hong Kong I don't get any
assistance from the Hong Kong government
since
2016 when the Hong Kong government is
questioning me about I was SN than how
many days Ed was stay in my house so I
told her that I cannot answer her
question she she should contact my La Mr
Robert Tio so after that
I can they stop my uh assistance so I me
and my daughter never get any assistance
until now from the Hong Kong government
even my daughter educations my rent so
um it's so hard for
me to uh survive but um I'm very
thankful to my La lawyer Mr Robert tibo
and um the people who support me in
Canada and all over the world who make
the donation and make us fundraising for
us so me and M can survive and
some uh Southern Refugee but
um I'm also afraid because we are not
safe here in Hong Kong so it's not easy
for me and my uh daughter and all some
other uh Southern Refugee in Hong Kong
so we are not safe here and in general
it's not easy here in Hong Kong it's
it's very terrible life here it's very
depressing
and uh I need to be to be brave and I I
have to be trust to my lawyer Mr robbert
and my law is in Canada to I hope soon I
can me and my daughter and the others St
can get inada for our safety and for our
freedom thank you thanks to
you thank you so much okay are there
more questions I don't see oh there's
one coming if I may go on yes may I ask
you what would happen to you if you were
denied Asylum
basically sorry what would happen to you
if you were denied Refugee status in
Hong Kong or Canada or
both in both places what would happen to
you Vanessa if your cases were
rejected
um if if my case is rejected in Hong
Kong or in Canada um I cannot go back to
Philippines I have very high for right
now so I I should I me and my daughter
will be killed in Philippines so um my
life is there's no point for me and my
daughter to survive anywhere so I um
maybe will be killed me and my daughter
there's not any future for
her and
um
um oh there's there's no life waiting
for me in my daughter that's the only
thing is send me back to Philippines and
me and my daughter will be killed he'll
be
die there's there's nothing for me in my
daughter thank you
okay so any other questions this is it's
the last
question there's a last question yes
okay microphone
please um hello I'm kind of reluctant to
asking uh you this but I have to do if
you could go back in time and decide
again what would you do
uh sorry can you say it again if you go
if you could go back in time and decide
again after knowing what you know now
and having been through this would you
do that again would you would you help
Snowden again would you decide the same
again or
different uh I'm always say Yes
um I I wanted to help him and um for me
what he's do is the right thing he's
nothing do anything
wrong and um I I'm not doing anything
wrong I just help him and um for me he's
he he needs help so I help him and um
Vanessa um would you would you do would
you do it
again yes I would help him again thanks
I will do
it
wow I have Shivers running down my
spine by so much humanity and yeah brave
brave brave woman thank you so much okay
thank you thank you Vanessa you have a
good night thank you okay good night
everyone good night
and best best
wishes thank
you okay that's it that's it and let me
just tell you if you have some spare
money donate it's a good cause thank you
so
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much
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a