0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/113 Thanks! 1 00:00:08,950 --> 00:00:10,509 Hello. 2 00:00:10,510 --> 00:00:12,939 Most people say the problem 3 00:00:12,940 --> 00:00:14,469 exists between keyboard and chair, but 4 00:00:14,470 --> 00:00:14,679 now 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,479 to use it becomes too incomplete, 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,219 and Dahlia will tell us all about it, so 7 00:00:18,220 --> 00:00:19,780 give you a warm round of applause. 8 00:00:28,810 --> 00:00:31,089 Yeah. Thank you very much. 9 00:00:31,090 --> 00:00:34,269 I'll try to be loud and 10 00:00:34,270 --> 00:00:35,270 quick. 11 00:00:35,950 --> 00:00:37,779 I'm an artist. 12 00:00:37,780 --> 00:00:39,939 I work on line since nineteen 13 00:00:39,940 --> 00:00:42,099 ninety five and already 14 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:43,179 since 15 years. 15 00:00:43,180 --> 00:00:45,459 I also teach art and design online 16 00:00:45,460 --> 00:00:47,229 as well as interface design. 17 00:00:47,230 --> 00:00:49,749 I also keep Joe Cetus Archive 18 00:00:49,750 --> 00:00:52,479 and I write about Joe speeches 19 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:54,699 and in general, about the web 20 00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:55,959 of the nineties. 21 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,179 And more generally, I write 22 00:00:58,180 --> 00:01:00,759 about digital culture, digital art 23 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,949 and digital folklore. 24 00:01:02,950 --> 00:01:05,109 And usually, when I say 25 00:01:05,110 --> 00:01:07,239 digital folklore, people 26 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,629 think that I mean hechos humor. 27 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:13,419 But this is not at all like this. 28 00:01:13,420 --> 00:01:15,739 What is meant with digital folklore? 29 00:01:15,740 --> 00:01:18,789 Other visual textual 30 00:01:18,790 --> 00:01:21,309 outdoor elements of 31 00:01:21,310 --> 00:01:23,979 cultures that emerged 32 00:01:23,980 --> 00:01:26,709 through emerged from 33 00:01:26,710 --> 00:01:29,199 users engagement with personal 34 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,599 computer application starting from 35 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,729 the last decade of 36 00:01:33,730 --> 00:01:35,949 the last century. 37 00:01:35,950 --> 00:01:38,019 So I mean, user culture 38 00:01:38,020 --> 00:01:40,449 and this time frame, when I say starting 39 00:01:40,450 --> 00:01:43,089 from the nineties, 40 00:01:43,090 --> 00:01:45,909 the life line timeframe 41 00:01:45,910 --> 00:01:48,819 is there to distinguish 42 00:01:48,820 --> 00:01:51,699 user culture from the glorious 43 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,309 home computer culture to distinguish, 44 00:01:54,310 --> 00:01:56,199 but not to completely separate them from 45 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,429 one another. 46 00:01:57,430 --> 00:01:59,739 I am also the coauthor 47 00:01:59,740 --> 00:02:02,289 of the Digital Folklore Rhythm, 48 00:02:02,290 --> 00:02:04,959 and this 49 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,989 book is dedicated to the users, 50 00:02:07,990 --> 00:02:10,599 and it starts with the introduction 51 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,699 that is entitled Do 52 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:15,669 you believe the Do you believe in users? 53 00:02:15,670 --> 00:02:18,489 Let me please remind to you 54 00:02:18,490 --> 00:02:20,739 where this quote 55 00:02:20,740 --> 00:02:22,629 this question comes from. 56 00:02:22,630 --> 00:02:25,539 It comes from the legendary film Tron 57 00:02:25,540 --> 00:02:28,479 Nineteen Eighty two and 58 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,299 this very important moment. 59 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:33,459 I hope this 60 00:02:33,460 --> 00:02:34,569 is not a mistake. 61 00:02:34,570 --> 00:02:36,249 I'm just a compound interest program. 62 00:02:37,510 --> 00:02:39,009 I work at a savings and loan. 63 00:02:39,010 --> 00:02:40,869 I can't play these video games. 64 00:02:40,870 --> 00:02:43,389 You can't look like a natural athlete, 65 00:02:43,390 --> 00:02:44,409 a on me. 66 00:02:44,410 --> 00:02:45,429 Are you kidding? 67 00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:47,199 No, I don't. No check on Tebow, right? 68 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,579 I get out of breath. 69 00:02:48,580 --> 00:02:49,809 Hey, look, you guys are going to make my 70 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:51,729 use of Mr. Henderson very angry. 71 00:02:51,730 --> 00:02:53,219 He's a full branch manager. 72 00:02:53,220 --> 00:02:54,789 Right? Another religious, 73 00:02:59,530 --> 00:03:01,659 let's say. Welcome friend, but not 74 00:03:01,660 --> 00:03:02,829 here. Not like this. 75 00:03:02,830 --> 00:03:04,360 I don't even know what I'm doing here. 76 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,089 Do you believe in the users? 77 00:03:10,090 --> 00:03:11,559 Yeah, sure. 78 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,269 If I don't have a user, then who wrote 79 00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:14,620 me. That's what you're doing. 80 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,399 Was it a bit too wide? 81 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,349 Could you hear the dialog here? 82 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,129 This is the beauty of this moment 83 00:03:24,130 --> 00:03:26,229 is, of course, in the 84 00:03:26,230 --> 00:03:28,959 fact that this app, this program 85 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,509 says user and means both developer 86 00:03:31,510 --> 00:03:33,549 and account manager. 87 00:03:33,550 --> 00:03:35,739 Yeah. And of course, the significance 88 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:37,989 of the episode is also in the way 89 00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:40,329 the word use is pronounced with a great 90 00:03:40,330 --> 00:03:41,330 respect. 91 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,229 Let's fly now to 92 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,219 2008 and 93 00:03:48,220 --> 00:03:50,109 listen to Don Norman. 94 00:03:50,110 --> 00:03:52,569 Don Norman, the father of Human-Centered 95 00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:54,999 Design, author of 96 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,389 Design of Everyday Things, Design, 97 00:03:57,390 --> 00:03:59,409 The Future of Things, and all other 98 00:03:59,410 --> 00:04:01,509 important text about 99 00:04:01,510 --> 00:04:02,979 how things should be designed. 100 00:04:06,070 --> 00:04:08,259 One of the horrible words we use is 101 00:04:08,260 --> 00:04:09,260 users. 102 00:04:11,260 --> 00:04:13,359 I am on a crusade to get rid 103 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,369 of the word users. 104 00:04:15,370 --> 00:04:17,768 I would prefer to call them people, 105 00:04:17,769 --> 00:04:19,028 people. 106 00:04:19,029 --> 00:04:20,268 Hmm. 107 00:04:20,269 --> 00:04:22,569 You know, we test people. 108 00:04:22,570 --> 00:04:24,729 What a strange thing we designed 109 00:04:24,730 --> 00:04:26,800 for people. We don't design for users. 110 00:04:29,230 --> 00:04:30,129 So don't. 111 00:04:30,130 --> 00:04:32,649 Norman does not believe in users, 112 00:04:32,650 --> 00:04:35,439 and he believes it's a horrible word. 113 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,179 There are 25 years, a quarter of the 114 00:04:37,180 --> 00:04:39,549 century in between the episode and wrong, 115 00:04:39,550 --> 00:04:41,889 and this speech Don 116 00:04:41,890 --> 00:04:43,959 Norman gave in 2008, 117 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,089 and this was really 25 118 00:04:46,090 --> 00:04:49,209 years of this dome being degraded. 119 00:04:49,210 --> 00:04:51,670 And today it's usually 120 00:04:53,140 --> 00:04:55,479 used with with negative 121 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:56,559 connotations. 122 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,109 If we listen to them, the irritations 123 00:04:59,110 --> 00:05:01,299 of recent years 124 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:03,129 of true to their words from the recent 125 00:05:03,130 --> 00:05:05,709 years, for example, money which 126 00:05:05,710 --> 00:05:06,710 the 127 00:05:08,050 --> 00:05:10,449 author of the language of the new media, 128 00:05:10,450 --> 00:05:12,729 one of the main irritations of the new 129 00:05:12,730 --> 00:05:14,949 media, he says 130 00:05:14,950 --> 00:05:17,019 in 2011, for example, 131 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:18,489 how do we call a person who is 132 00:05:18,490 --> 00:05:21,399 interacting with digital media user 133 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,129 no-Good and 134 00:05:24,130 --> 00:05:26,349 another theoretician, 135 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:28,389 Janet moreI, is the pioneering 136 00:05:28,390 --> 00:05:30,459 interaction designer author of 137 00:05:30,460 --> 00:05:32,619 The Hamlet on the Holodeck. 138 00:05:32,620 --> 00:05:34,899 She writes in 2012, 139 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:37,779 in the introduction to her new book 140 00:05:37,780 --> 00:05:39,879 Inventing the Medium uses 141 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,339 a convenient but narrow and outdated 142 00:05:42,340 --> 00:05:44,409 like interface in director 143 00:05:44,410 --> 00:05:46,659 is someone who is not using 144 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:48,909 the device but acting within the system. 145 00:05:48,910 --> 00:05:51,279 A user is seeking to complete immediate 146 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,410 risk. Interact is engaged. 147 00:05:55,090 --> 00:05:57,729 Let's now listen to another 148 00:05:57,730 --> 00:05:59,629 big name, Edward. 149 00:05:59,630 --> 00:06:02,169 Often in some 150 00:06:02,170 --> 00:06:04,779 months ago at the conference, 151 00:06:04,780 --> 00:06:06,979 he said only two industries called 152 00:06:06,980 --> 00:06:09,669 the customers users illegal drugs 153 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:11,709 and software. 154 00:06:11,710 --> 00:06:13,119 And this is. 155 00:06:17,450 --> 00:06:20,359 I hope I hope you are not agreeing with 156 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,999 Edward off to with your applauses, 157 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,309 because it's absolutely wrong 158 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:27,409 to say to proclaim things like 159 00:06:27,410 --> 00:06:29,389 this, first of all, because users are not 160 00:06:29,390 --> 00:06:30,709 customers. 161 00:06:30,710 --> 00:06:32,779 And second, 162 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:34,849 it's in general comparison with 163 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:38,239 junkies. It's an evil rhetoric, 164 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,429 as well as all other 165 00:06:40,430 --> 00:06:42,709 attempts to explain the word user 166 00:06:42,710 --> 00:06:44,929 go into pre-computer, so to say, 167 00:06:44,930 --> 00:06:47,239 pre-computer, regional history 168 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,589 of the word user. 169 00:06:48,590 --> 00:06:50,019 And I'm 170 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,049 talking about connotations like 171 00:06:54,050 --> 00:06:56,269 somebody who is unimportant, who is just 172 00:06:56,270 --> 00:06:58,849 using the who is 173 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:01,759 maybe even addicted and passive, 174 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,399 because indeed, 175 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,679 the word user means an active 176 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,639 position. 177 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,279 I was very happy recently to find the 178 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,649 text by Raymond Williams 179 00:07:12,650 --> 00:07:14,749 written actually more than 50 180 00:07:14,750 --> 00:07:15,859 years ago. 181 00:07:15,860 --> 00:07:18,319 Raymond Williams is known for explaining 182 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,359 a lot of terms, and it's a small ledger 183 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,299 of the words to the general public. 184 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:25,429 His most known book is key words, 185 00:07:25,430 --> 00:07:27,529 where he explains what 186 00:07:27,530 --> 00:07:30,409 six labor technology 187 00:07:30,410 --> 00:07:31,729 and other words mean. 188 00:07:31,730 --> 00:07:33,739 Also, consumers and customers. 189 00:07:33,740 --> 00:07:35,569 And in his previous Book of the Long 190 00:07:35,570 --> 00:07:37,699 Revolution, he also 191 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:40,369 talks about consumers 192 00:07:40,370 --> 00:07:41,869 and with regret, he 193 00:07:43,460 --> 00:07:44,539 mentions. 194 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:46,819 If we were not consumers but users, 195 00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:49,489 we might look at society very differently 196 00:07:49,490 --> 00:07:51,829 for the concept of use involves general 197 00:07:51,830 --> 00:07:53,359 human judgments. 198 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,789 We need to know how to use things 199 00:07:55,790 --> 00:07:57,859 and what we are using them for, 200 00:07:57,860 --> 00:08:00,470 and also the effects of particular users 201 00:08:01,820 --> 00:08:03,380 on our general life. 202 00:08:04,910 --> 00:08:07,669 This is a very important explanation 203 00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:09,179 of the word to use. 204 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:11,089 So somebody who knows how to use 205 00:08:12,860 --> 00:08:15,319 things and what they are used 206 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,579 for. 207 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:19,009 But the thing is that software industry 208 00:08:19,010 --> 00:08:20,089 and I.T. 209 00:08:20,090 --> 00:08:22,279 industry, the service 210 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,489 providers don't really need users 211 00:08:25,490 --> 00:08:27,619 who know how they use things and what 212 00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:29,599 they're using it for. 213 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,939 They need the customers 214 00:08:31,940 --> 00:08:33,288 and consumers. 215 00:08:33,289 --> 00:08:35,629 And so human bots 216 00:08:35,630 --> 00:08:38,089 whom they gently call people. 217 00:08:38,090 --> 00:08:40,249 That's why in the Facebook 218 00:08:40,250 --> 00:08:41,720 office, you can find 219 00:08:42,770 --> 00:08:43,819 notes like this. 220 00:08:43,820 --> 00:08:46,699 It's from the last year Christmas party. 221 00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:49,189 And that's why also a year ago, 222 00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:51,529 Jack Dorsey, the founder 223 00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:53,719 of Twitter and Foursquare, 224 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,999 says, If I ever say the word user 225 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,489 again immediately charge me with 226 00:08:58,490 --> 00:08:59,570 240 227 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,179 dollars. 228 00:09:02,180 --> 00:09:05,209 He didn't say it in this little 229 00:09:05,210 --> 00:09:07,429 text. Of course, I allowed 230 00:09:07,430 --> 00:09:09,709 it to myself to make some fun 231 00:09:09,710 --> 00:09:11,749 or to make. 232 00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:14,719 It may be that the future generations 233 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:15,919 do remember this 234 00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:19,849 this idea of the 235 00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:22,219 idea and software industry 236 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:24,739 to see users as consumers and customers. 237 00:09:24,740 --> 00:09:26,959 And it is only half of the story 238 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,149 which explains why 239 00:09:29,150 --> 00:09:30,769 a user is no good. 240 00:09:30,770 --> 00:09:33,139 Another thing is another reason 241 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:35,329 is a general the mainstream paradigm 242 00:09:35,330 --> 00:09:38,089 of computer technology development, 243 00:09:38,090 --> 00:09:40,159 and that is invisible computer. 244 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,229 Here we can come again to the 245 00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:43,639 to the normal. 246 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,709 His famous prediction from 247 00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:48,139 99 to the computer of the future 248 00:09:48,140 --> 00:09:49,140 should be invisible. 249 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:51,960 Sorry. 250 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,419 He said it the nine to nine to as an 251 00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:03,549 answer to the question why interfaces 252 00:10:03,550 --> 00:10:05,679 don't work, they don't work because 253 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,689 they are interfaces and they should 254 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:09,789 vanish and the computer of the future 255 00:10:09,790 --> 00:10:11,859 should be invisible as well. 256 00:10:11,860 --> 00:10:14,629 We know we live in the future. 257 00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:17,439 Yeah, computers are still distinguishable 258 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,509 and marketable, but they are so much, not 259 00:10:19,510 --> 00:10:22,209 something you sit in front of anymore 260 00:10:22,210 --> 00:10:24,249 and forecasts for invisibility. 261 00:10:24,250 --> 00:10:26,769 They are so optimistic 262 00:10:26,770 --> 00:10:29,019 that some companies 263 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:31,149 already allow themselves to put 264 00:10:31,150 --> 00:10:34,119 this prediction in the present tense 265 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,369 curve, as Apple did it 266 00:10:36,370 --> 00:10:39,189 two years, one and a half years ago, 267 00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:41,259 and applied it to a particular piece 268 00:10:41,260 --> 00:10:43,009 of technology and said We believe the 269 00:10:43,010 --> 00:10:45,099 technology is at its very best when 270 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:47,199 it's invisible, when you are conscious 271 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,029 only of what you are doing, not the 272 00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:51,249 device you are doing it with 273 00:10:51,250 --> 00:10:52,839 with no, no, no, no, no. 274 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,909 And now the last sentence, it's 275 00:10:54,910 --> 00:10:56,619 a more personal experience with 276 00:10:56,620 --> 00:10:59,829 technology that people have ever hit. 277 00:10:59,830 --> 00:11:02,139 I ask could do now to pay attention 278 00:11:02,140 --> 00:11:04,449 to the last sentence 279 00:11:04,450 --> 00:11:06,549 again, to the word experience, 280 00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:08,199 technology and people. 281 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,429 And what this thing is for. 282 00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:11,619 So these are people, not users. 283 00:11:11,620 --> 00:11:14,019 This is technology, not computer. 284 00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:15,819 And this is experience, but not 285 00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:17,499 interface. 286 00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:19,899 It is because it happens 287 00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:21,399 now everywhere. 288 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,799 If you read announcements 289 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,049 of the conferences in interface design 290 00:11:26,050 --> 00:11:28,299 sphere and in 291 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:30,459 I.T. in general, 292 00:11:30,460 --> 00:11:32,649 this words, they just 293 00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:33,609 cease to exist. 294 00:11:33,610 --> 00:11:35,379 They're replaced with other ones. 295 00:11:35,380 --> 00:11:36,339 And this happens. 296 00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:39,099 So technology instead of computer 297 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:41,319 experience instead of interface and 298 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,689 people instead of users and the field 299 00:11:43,690 --> 00:11:45,669 itself are step by step. 300 00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:46,749 We've got renamed. 301 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:48,939 I mean, the field of interface design 302 00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:51,100 got a new name experience design. 303 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,029 There is another neighboring field, 304 00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:57,369 which is designed 305 00:11:57,370 --> 00:11:59,769 by gamification gamification trend. 306 00:11:59,770 --> 00:12:02,379 Their users are addressed as gamers, 307 00:12:02,380 --> 00:12:05,139 and everything else is just an epic win. 308 00:12:05,140 --> 00:12:06,159 Yeah. 309 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,219 And this is exactly the same 310 00:12:09,220 --> 00:12:11,319 tactic what we see here. 311 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,199 So they're gamers, 312 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,329 customers, consumers are the main 313 00:12:16,330 --> 00:12:18,489 thing, not 314 00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:20,649 users, because because the what 315 00:12:20,650 --> 00:12:22,959 was the word user is 316 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,149 stays on the way of computer 317 00:12:25,150 --> 00:12:27,999 to become completely invisible. 318 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,219 It destroys the illusion of 319 00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:31,299 computer closeness. 320 00:12:33,370 --> 00:12:34,370 But we 321 00:12:35,650 --> 00:12:37,899 we need to take care about this 322 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:40,089 word because 323 00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:42,369 invisible because invisible user 324 00:12:42,370 --> 00:12:44,559 is more of an issue as an invisible 325 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:45,489 computer. 326 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:47,649 Computers can get as tiny as 327 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:51,669 and invisible as wanted, but the 328 00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:54,069 users should stay visible 329 00:12:54,070 --> 00:12:56,169 because if this, if 330 00:12:56,170 --> 00:12:58,899 they're use this word, then they do. 331 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:01,599 The existence of two classes of people, 332 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,029 developers and users is 333 00:13:04,030 --> 00:13:06,159 also not there anymore, and this is 334 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,379 how users can lose 335 00:13:08,380 --> 00:13:10,529 their right, their rights and 336 00:13:10,530 --> 00:13:12,879 opportunity to protect this rights 337 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,099 and this rights are the right 338 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,349 to demand the better software, 339 00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:19,919 the right to fail epically. 340 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:20,920 The right to 341 00:13:22,270 --> 00:13:24,609 get your files back, the right 342 00:13:24,610 --> 00:13:26,859 to delete your files, 343 00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:28,989 and the fundamental right here, the 344 00:13:28,990 --> 00:13:31,809 right to see the computer. 345 00:13:31,810 --> 00:13:32,810 So that's 346 00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:36,399 what in a year ago I 347 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,189 wrote in to say Turing complete user, 348 00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:41,409 where I ask 349 00:13:41,410 --> 00:13:44,079 this question What can be done to 350 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,819 protect the term, the notion and 351 00:13:45,820 --> 00:13:47,259 existence of the user? 352 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:49,679 What arguments can be found to stop 353 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,459 Adam Norman's crusade? 354 00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:54,159 And how I can dispel 355 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,110 left Manalich skepticism? 356 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,289 What can we how can we 357 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,619 what do we know about the user 358 00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:05,199 beside the opinion that it's no good 359 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,939 to be one? 360 00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:09,579 There are two things to understand 361 00:14:09,580 --> 00:14:11,769 about the users and the 362 00:14:11,770 --> 00:14:12,849 history. 363 00:14:12,850 --> 00:14:15,729 One is that users were invented 364 00:14:15,730 --> 00:14:17,949 before the computers, 365 00:14:17,950 --> 00:14:20,259 not after not parallel 366 00:14:20,260 --> 00:14:22,599 to computers, but really prior 367 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,579 the computers. All the important texts 368 00:14:24,580 --> 00:14:26,919 that you maybe ever read important text 369 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,989 for the history of computing. 370 00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:31,449 They are, in fact, the history 371 00:14:31,450 --> 00:14:33,369 of the user. So the Earth like Vannevar 372 00:14:33,370 --> 00:14:35,589 Bush, league leader 373 00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:37,899 and and Gilbert and 374 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:40,059 Alan and other authors 375 00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:42,309 at Xerox Parc, they all were 376 00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:44,500 imagined and users, first of all. 377 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:48,699 And in this interim, complete use 378 00:14:48,700 --> 00:14:51,159 say and also fall in this history 379 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,189 and the picture of user from the 380 00:14:54,190 --> 00:14:56,769 scientists scientists 381 00:14:56,770 --> 00:14:59,419 whose hands are free. 382 00:14:59,420 --> 00:15:01,669 Tudor and Gilbert's ideal 383 00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:03,469 user who is developing together with the 384 00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:05,659 computer or the lady 385 00:15:05,660 --> 00:15:07,849 with the royal typewriter as 386 00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:09,919 it was imagined, and Xerox Parc 387 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,169 or children by Goldberg and Alan 388 00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:13,159 Key. 389 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,499 And then further to the 390 00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:17,629 more and 391 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:20,329 more modern 392 00:15:20,330 --> 00:15:21,330 views. 393 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:23,539 And also, 394 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,399 I said, important to know that they were 395 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,619 imagined before. 396 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:29,719 But maybe these are just sentiments, some 397 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,609 facts that are not so important. 398 00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:33,829 What is really important that the users 399 00:15:33,830 --> 00:15:35,809 were emergent, they are free judgment of 400 00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:37,249 image and imagination. 401 00:15:38,270 --> 00:15:40,459 This picture is always 402 00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:42,739 projected on us and 403 00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:45,049 whatever this imaginations are, 404 00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:47,239 there is a constant and the constant 405 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,119 is that the users 406 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,189 are busy, always busy with something 407 00:15:52,190 --> 00:15:54,559 else. I have here quote from a quite 408 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,469 a good book on interface design, 409 00:15:57,470 --> 00:15:59,959 and this is the advice 410 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,149 to the to the developers 411 00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:03,859 how to think about the users. 412 00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:05,119 Very gentle, yeah. 413 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,069 In fact, to the users. 414 00:16:07,070 --> 00:16:09,469 But the main thing is here that the users 415 00:16:09,470 --> 00:16:11,089 are those who are busy with something 416 00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:13,279 else. So users, the people who 417 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,219 are not going 418 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:17,329 to spend 419 00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:20,479 any thought on the computer at 420 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,729 all, they are delegating 421 00:16:22,730 --> 00:16:25,129 repetitive tasks to the computer 422 00:16:25,130 --> 00:16:27,079 and also their delegates to draw the 423 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,269 board in between the repetitive 424 00:16:29,270 --> 00:16:31,939 task and mature thought 425 00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:32,990 to the computer. 426 00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:37,170 This. 427 00:16:42,430 --> 00:16:44,019 Oh, yeah. 428 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:47,469 Oh, this delegation for the U.S. 429 00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:48,759 is the most important thing. 430 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,679 And of course, I understand that there 431 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,929 are many hours a day then 432 00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:56,229 this delegation and automation, 433 00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:58,569 they are required and 434 00:16:58,570 --> 00:17:00,699 enjoyed, but times and all 435 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:02,859 aspects of our life are 436 00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:04,098 computerized. 437 00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:06,519 This it's not possible 438 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,828 to accept this visit with something 439 00:17:08,829 --> 00:17:11,499 else as a norm, as a default. 440 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:13,629 That's why I suggest also on 441 00:17:13,630 --> 00:17:16,419 this assay to see 442 00:17:16,420 --> 00:17:18,729 another mode of user 443 00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:21,068 to have another picture, the user 444 00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:23,318 that was formed through three decades 445 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:25,449 of just in general purpose technology 446 00:17:25,450 --> 00:17:27,729 to the needs to the general purpose 447 00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:30,279 user and general purpose user 448 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,379 can write an article in their email 449 00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:33,789 client client. 450 00:17:33,790 --> 00:17:35,859 They can lay out their business card in 451 00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:38,139 Excel they can like without 452 00:17:38,140 --> 00:17:40,689 Facebook, they can tweet without Twitter. 453 00:17:40,690 --> 00:17:43,989 They can upload images without 454 00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:44,990 flicker. 455 00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:47,949 They can have online affairs outside 456 00:17:47,950 --> 00:17:50,079 of online dating services. 457 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,899 They can make six second videos 458 00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:54,489 without Vine. 459 00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:57,069 They can shave without the web. 460 00:17:57,070 --> 00:17:59,199 They can shave in front of a webcam 461 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,389 without shave 462 00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:03,699 me up. 463 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:05,649 And they, of course, would be able to 464 00:18:05,650 --> 00:18:08,799 make selfies and to upload the selfies 465 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,749 without nude Justin Bieber's 466 00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:14,739 Shorts Me app. 467 00:18:14,740 --> 00:18:16,959 This this users can be 468 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,419 possibly also used to call universal 469 00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:21,579 users or Turing complete 470 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:24,369 users as a reference to Universal 471 00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:26,289 Turing's machine. 472 00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:28,689 But whatever name I choose, 473 00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:30,910 the main thing I 474 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,269 o the main thing I mean 475 00:18:34,270 --> 00:18:36,549 is the user who is able to achieve 476 00:18:36,550 --> 00:18:38,440 your goals without 477 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,849 was able to achieve her goals 478 00:18:42,850 --> 00:18:43,850 without 479 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:47,439 without respect to the primary goal 480 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,719 of the software or the device 481 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,239 that we know about the universal machine. 482 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,639 That there is nothing one computer 483 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,739 can do what another can't given 484 00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:59,049 enough time and memory, 485 00:18:59,050 --> 00:19:01,329 and the same goes to the Turing complete 486 00:19:01,330 --> 00:19:03,699 user. So there is nothing one user 487 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,859 can do what another can't given 488 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:08,559 enough time and respect. 489 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,019 And in 490 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,169 this is then important to understand 491 00:19:14,170 --> 00:19:16,569 that one of the this being 492 00:19:17,650 --> 00:19:19,959 a general purpose user is 493 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,389 in fact and automate user 494 00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:23,409 experience. 495 00:19:23,410 --> 00:19:25,239 If you want to think in the user 496 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,429 experience terms 497 00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:29,619 and in the terms of the use of the 498 00:19:29,620 --> 00:19:32,559 user experience design field. 499 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,449 But what does it mean that for the 500 00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:36,639 software industry, for the services 501 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:37,749 that are provided to us? 502 00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:39,879 Does it mean that to provide this 503 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,069 experience, industry 504 00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:44,529 has to deliver and perfect tools 505 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:47,019 or hold themself from improving existing 506 00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:48,159 tools? Of course not. 507 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,349 The thing is that the 508 00:19:51,370 --> 00:19:54,339 idea of perfection should be 509 00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:56,289 addressed to the general purpose user. 510 00:19:56,290 --> 00:19:58,489 It should value users involvement 511 00:19:58,490 --> 00:20:01,019 and ambiguity in 512 00:20:01,020 --> 00:20:03,969 in software and interface design. 513 00:20:03,970 --> 00:20:04,970 Demands in gender 514 00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:08,349 ambiguous software is only one 515 00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:11,109 of the things that computer users 516 00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:13,269 can do. Only one of the steps 517 00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:15,549 to go further and to think about 518 00:20:15,550 --> 00:20:17,709 the rights that we can 519 00:20:17,710 --> 00:20:20,199 have and how we can protect them. 520 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,119 I made an extension to the Turing 521 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:23,120 Complete user 522 00:20:24,460 --> 00:20:27,039 is safe and there is a platform 523 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,819 where you and I can demand 524 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:31,239 rights now. 525 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,219 So this is the form I demand the right 526 00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:34,119 to. 527 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:35,120 If you made it, 528 00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:39,309 it will appear and your name 529 00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:41,679 will appear in comic songs, which is very 530 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,539 important for me. 531 00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:45,969 As you could see, it's possible 532 00:20:45,970 --> 00:20:48,589 to discuss it, to upvoted, to downvote 533 00:20:48,590 --> 00:20:50,889 it. It's not a perfect discussion 534 00:20:50,890 --> 00:20:52,959 system at this moment that it 535 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:53,979 has to be improved. 536 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:56,529 It's in the state of collecting 537 00:20:56,530 --> 00:20:58,659 ideas at this moment, but we have 538 00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:01,539 a beautiful home button 539 00:21:01,540 --> 00:21:03,939 and when you click on it, so 540 00:21:03,940 --> 00:21:04,940 you are at. 541 00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:08,250 Home page 542 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,719 where all this users user 543 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,359 rights are listed at this moment, 544 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,609 and they are quite different there 545 00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:18,889 on the different level of elaboration 546 00:21:18,890 --> 00:21:19,890 at this moment. 547 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,719 So I tried now to group 548 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,849 them at least a little bit, and here you 549 00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:28,009 can see there some something what 550 00:21:28,010 --> 00:21:30,919 could be called fundamental rights. 551 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,839 And of course, for me this to see the 552 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,029 computer difficult to advocate for 553 00:21:35,030 --> 00:21:38,239 it because users are 554 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,009 convinced that good computers and 555 00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:42,169 invisible computer and 556 00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:44,209 I myself, I also don't demand huge 557 00:21:44,210 --> 00:21:47,089 computers and bulky screens or whatever. 558 00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:49,819 But I mean that computers 559 00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:51,289 should be visible. You should see the 560 00:21:51,290 --> 00:21:53,469 computer even if it's invisible. 561 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:54,709 Yeah, you should know that there is a 562 00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:56,929 computer, and to see it is 563 00:21:56,930 --> 00:21:59,179 a precondition for asking the question 564 00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:01,489 What is this computer doing 565 00:22:01,490 --> 00:22:02,599 to own data? 566 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,339 This I borrowed from 567 00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:07,279 user data manifesto. 568 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,709 The great manifesto that also 569 00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:11,779 deals with the same issue How 570 00:22:11,780 --> 00:22:13,849 to Protect User Rights written 571 00:22:13,850 --> 00:22:16,069 by Frank Khalid Shaikh, the founder 572 00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:18,199 of ownCloud and 573 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,149 there said seven other points. 574 00:22:20,150 --> 00:22:22,969 Read them that elaborate on it. 575 00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:25,129 Then there is, of course, to install 576 00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:28,009 free software on your own computer. 577 00:22:28,010 --> 00:22:30,079 Seen by many, as may be the 578 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,689 only right that one would need, 579 00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:34,969 that free software is the answer to all 580 00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:36,169 the troubles. 581 00:22:36,170 --> 00:22:37,170 It's, of course, 582 00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:40,339 it makes sense. Of course, it would be 583 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:42,589 different if our world 584 00:22:42,590 --> 00:22:44,869 would be a free software and world users 585 00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:46,939 would be more competent 586 00:22:46,940 --> 00:22:49,489 and more empowered. 587 00:22:49,490 --> 00:22:51,259 But still, there would be users and there 588 00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:53,419 would be developers, so we shouldn't stay 589 00:22:53,420 --> 00:22:54,679 on this level as users. 590 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,899 We should go to another level 591 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:58,789 of precision and demands. 592 00:22:58,790 --> 00:23:01,219 So, for example, to know wherever 593 00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:03,769 my hardware will run free software 594 00:23:03,770 --> 00:23:05,509 is, one user demanded. 595 00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:07,699 Or I think 596 00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:09,949 this was demanded by Brendan Hurrell, 597 00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:12,439 who was before here to participate 598 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,389 in society without having to use a 599 00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:16,609 particular software device or corporate 600 00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:17,599 website. 601 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,699 I think you see that its next level of 602 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:22,159 thinking about how I can protect 603 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,289 myself, what I can demand 604 00:23:24,290 --> 00:23:26,419 some demands 605 00:23:26,420 --> 00:23:28,999 are obviously courageous 606 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,399 that come out from bad 607 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,739 experience with software 608 00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:35,929 do not have my system made obsolete to 609 00:23:35,930 --> 00:23:37,219 ignore updates. 610 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:39,439 Not to be interrupted by program. 611 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,779 My data are not being converted. 612 00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:44,119 You know your uploaded GIF, 613 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:45,769 but it became a JPEG. 614 00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:47,899 This is what the user 615 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:50,209 was talking about to disconnect. 616 00:23:50,210 --> 00:23:52,339 This is now from experiences from 617 00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:53,629 the cloud. 618 00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:56,059 The users shout to 619 00:23:56,060 --> 00:23:58,219 disconnect to view offline, to 620 00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:00,889 securely delete my six year history, 621 00:24:00,890 --> 00:24:03,049 to actually delete my account. 622 00:24:03,050 --> 00:24:05,149 To be on Google, Apple and, for 623 00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:06,589 example, to look out. 624 00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:09,079 I think this lock out is a very elegant 625 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,569 demand at this moment, and 626 00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:13,849 it's very meaningful and expressive. 627 00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:16,129 There is so much said about the right 628 00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:18,739 for privacy that humans, 629 00:24:18,740 --> 00:24:20,869 people or citizens 630 00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:21,769 should have. 631 00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:23,449 And of course, as citizens, we should 632 00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:24,829 demand privacy. 633 00:24:24,830 --> 00:24:26,929 But as computer users on another 634 00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:29,269 level. Yeah, you should demand the right 635 00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:31,999 to log out and then 636 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,000 it's where it will. 637 00:24:34,550 --> 00:24:36,649 Then you can talk about the privacy. 638 00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:39,079 On another level, there are some 639 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,419 rights that are 640 00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:43,529 quite discussed, so 641 00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:45,709 a lot of disagreement about it to 642 00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:47,929 get revenue, to get data 643 00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:49,549 stored in text format. 644 00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:50,719 To read source code. 645 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,999 That's what really has to do 646 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,769 with the users and their rights, and not 647 00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:57,199 this is not discussed. 648 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,359 Then something like the right to a web 649 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,459 browser to see the URL, to have a 650 00:25:01,460 --> 00:25:03,889 real keyboard, to use cable 651 00:25:03,890 --> 00:25:05,959 to resume where I left off to have 652 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,309 a real key to. 653 00:25:07,310 --> 00:25:09,679 So yeah, 654 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,179 to have a real keyboard. 655 00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:13,249 The copy and paste to 656 00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:15,379 pull. To reply all so 657 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:17,599 are these are just caprices 658 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,759 of the users or this 659 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:20,989 essential freedoms. 660 00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:23,899 This is something what is discussed now 661 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:25,789 at our platform. 662 00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:27,739 But the main thing here that the thought 663 00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:29,029 is provoked. 664 00:25:29,030 --> 00:25:31,219 Yeah, then what you think, what 665 00:25:31,220 --> 00:25:33,319 I can do and what computer can 666 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,539 do. What was delivered to 667 00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:38,299 me as a usability feature 668 00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:40,999 and what I do not want to 669 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,099 to give away and let me 670 00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:44,100 finish with the 671 00:25:45,530 --> 00:25:47,659 last one with the right to 672 00:25:47,660 --> 00:25:50,059 undo it was the first one 673 00:25:50,060 --> 00:25:51,980 in the system and 674 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:56,899 it's now it still stays up there 675 00:25:56,900 --> 00:25:59,149 on the top. And I think we should really 676 00:25:59,150 --> 00:26:02,179 fight for it because of three reasons. 677 00:26:02,180 --> 00:26:04,579 First of all, the undo 678 00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:06,839 is one of not many generic. 679 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,559 Comments and genetic cross 680 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,569 application comments that are so 681 00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:14,059 important for design of ambiguous 682 00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:15,319 applications. 683 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,749 Second, undo is a clear 684 00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:20,119 border in between the virtual 685 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:22,249 and the real world, and soon 686 00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:24,469 you will want to find one and then 687 00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:26,539 remember that in real life, you 688 00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:28,039 can't undo. 689 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,049 Yeah, it's easy. 690 00:26:30,050 --> 00:26:32,189 And the third is maybe 691 00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:34,909 a sentimental one is its historical 692 00:26:34,910 --> 00:26:36,059 significance. 693 00:26:36,060 --> 00:26:38,179 Undo was 694 00:26:38,180 --> 00:26:40,729 conceptualized in 1976. 695 00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:43,489 It marks the period then 696 00:26:43,490 --> 00:26:46,159 computers started to be used by people 697 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,659 who didn't program them. 698 00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:49,879 So is the arrival of the 699 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,249 real user and so-called naive 700 00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:54,349 user, and that was given to 701 00:26:54,350 --> 00:26:56,659 them users not 702 00:26:56,660 --> 00:26:58,849 to scare them away, to give them 703 00:26:58,850 --> 00:27:01,279 the right to make mistake. 704 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,349 And yet, because there was an 705 00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:06,199 understanding that there is nothing 706 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,269 one user can do 707 00:27:08,270 --> 00:27:10,569 what another country if they can 708 00:27:10,570 --> 00:27:11,570 undo. 709 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,230 So please contribute 710 00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:17,960 and thank you for your attention. 711 00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:32,029 OK, thank you. 712 00:27:32,030 --> 00:27:34,369 There are two mikes lined up, Mike 713 00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:36,710 one, Mike two, Mike, three 714 00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:40,099 other questions. 715 00:27:41,150 --> 00:27:42,150 Number two, 716 00:27:43,310 --> 00:27:45,379 I wanted to really recommend your 717 00:27:45,380 --> 00:27:47,419 essay during complete user to the 718 00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:48,420 audience here. 719 00:27:50,090 --> 00:27:52,159 I read it, I think when Cory Doctorow 720 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,539 recommended it, and 721 00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:58,969 Cory is also someone who's very concerned 722 00:27:58,970 --> 00:28:00,589 about the language that we use to talk 723 00:28:00,590 --> 00:28:02,059 about the people who interact with 724 00:28:02,060 --> 00:28:03,019 systems. 725 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:04,909 And he's also concerned about the use of 726 00:28:04,910 --> 00:28:07,159 the word consumer, and 727 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,109 he often likes to talk about an audience 728 00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:11,329 or about readers rather than a consumer. 729 00:28:11,330 --> 00:28:13,549 Also trying to put in the foreground 730 00:28:13,550 --> 00:28:14,719 the person who's 731 00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:17,750 actively dealing with the system. 732 00:28:21,050 --> 00:28:23,119 So I thought your essay was very exciting 733 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,489 and raised many of the same 734 00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:27,589 exciting concepts about human creativity 735 00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:28,590 and intelligence. 736 00:28:29,420 --> 00:28:31,939 I wanted to ask if you were familiar with 737 00:28:31,940 --> 00:28:34,489 a site called Revealing Errors, 738 00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:36,259 which was created by my friend Marco 739 00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:37,489 Hill. 740 00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:39,079 And he's also concerned with making 741 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,400 computers visible to people 742 00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:43,969 as a matter of showing 743 00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:46,549 power, relationships and technology. 744 00:28:46,550 --> 00:28:48,619 So he looks at errors that occur 745 00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:50,809 in computer systems as a way 746 00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:52,819 of getting people to think about who 747 00:28:52,820 --> 00:28:54,229 created the system. 748 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:55,369 What does the system do? 749 00:28:55,370 --> 00:28:57,049 How can the system fail? 750 00:28:57,050 --> 00:28:59,359 What decisions and values are embodied 751 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:00,360 in the system? 752 00:29:01,130 --> 00:29:02,479 Have you seen the review? 753 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,699 No, but I know I 754 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:05,700 memorized. 755 00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:07,780 But 756 00:29:09,110 --> 00:29:11,089 thanks. Yeah, thank you. 757 00:29:11,090 --> 00:29:12,859 Questions from the internets. 758 00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:14,659 Yes. No. 759 00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:15,660 Then number two? 760 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,069 Yeah. And I think 761 00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:20,070 that 762 00:29:21,410 --> 00:29:22,789 I think that 763 00:29:24,110 --> 00:29:26,599 user interface and security are to 764 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,019 a two parts of 765 00:29:30,020 --> 00:29:32,119 the same spectrum how people 766 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,279 deal with machines and and 767 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,619 you're talking about two incomplete user 768 00:29:36,620 --> 00:29:38,569 and that presupposes two incomplete 769 00:29:38,570 --> 00:29:40,729 interfaces. So and I think 770 00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:43,369 if you have stateful interfaces, 771 00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:45,649 a lot of the problems that you listed 772 00:29:45,650 --> 00:29:47,659 do not come up. For example, the right to 773 00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:49,789 lock out is only 774 00:29:49,790 --> 00:29:52,099 a that's only a problem because 775 00:29:53,150 --> 00:29:54,859 we have what interfaces I didn't 776 00:29:54,860 --> 00:29:56,989 stateful like. 777 00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:59,089 And if you have state transitions that 778 00:29:59,090 --> 00:30:01,189 are explicit, but you do not have a 779 00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:02,899 Turing complete interface that can do 780 00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:04,919 anything, yeah, you are right. 781 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,339 You need state machine, for example, 782 00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:09,529 several screens and you can only switch 783 00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:10,429 between them. 784 00:30:10,430 --> 00:30:12,289 And the right to lock out is only an 785 00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:14,659 issue because people use, for example, 786 00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:17,359 cookies and do not 787 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,739 build stateful interfaces. 788 00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:21,109 So and I think 789 00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:23,569 maybe the maybe 790 00:30:23,570 --> 00:30:26,179 there can be an explicit mathematical 791 00:30:26,180 --> 00:30:27,899 model of interfaces. 792 00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:30,109 And do you think that's possible like 793 00:30:30,110 --> 00:30:32,419 of interfaces that are usable without 794 00:30:32,420 --> 00:30:34,159 being too incomplete user, they are not 795 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,499 confusing and that do not allow 796 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:37,500 specific errors. 797 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,210 I really don't see this contradiction 798 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:47,009 of what you are trying to 799 00:30:47,010 --> 00:30:48,329 negotiate. 800 00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:50,419 I'm talking about ambiguity 801 00:30:50,420 --> 00:30:53,039 and the power of user 802 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,169 and the user's 803 00:30:55,170 --> 00:30:57,309 involvement and 804 00:30:57,310 --> 00:30:59,639 the end making decisions console small 805 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,859 decisions, big decisions all the time you 806 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:03,059 are talking about now the right. 807 00:31:04,290 --> 00:31:06,779 I think that this ambiguity 808 00:31:06,780 --> 00:31:08,969 can only come up if the computer 809 00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:11,039 provides sufficient and powerful 810 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,589 language to have 811 00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:15,779 ambiguity. For example, if you have 812 00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:17,999 a simple interface, a push button, there 813 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,499 is no ambiguity. It's either to be 814 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:21,869 pressed or not to be pressed. 815 00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:23,969 So you don't have a complete 816 00:31:23,970 --> 00:31:26,189 user in that case, and you do not have 817 00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:28,469 confusion and you do not need 818 00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:30,720 any exclusive rights 819 00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:33,299 in regards to that button. 820 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:35,130 But why should we now imagine this 821 00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:38,399 buttons if 822 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,149 we are in the book 823 00:31:39,150 --> 00:31:40,709 where you can still have a useful 824 00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:42,839 interface while reducing its expressive 825 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,239 power? You can have software that 826 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,579 only allows to 827 00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:50,879 do user useful things without 828 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,279 having, for example, contradictory 829 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,869 states that 830 00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:58,979 so you could build a library that 831 00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:00,899 user interface widgets that don't confuse 832 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:01,900 users. 833 00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:04,870 I think 834 00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:07,919 maybe let's talk about this later. 835 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:08,920 Yeah, because. 836 00:32:11,730 --> 00:32:12,730 OK, number two. 837 00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:17,529 Thank you very much. 838 00:32:17,530 --> 00:32:18,609 I wanted to ask, 839 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,369 what do you think about the relation 840 00:32:21,370 --> 00:32:23,589 between interfaces and using 841 00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:25,719 interfaces and 842 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,879 the way human beings perceive 843 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,949 the world and the 844 00:32:29,950 --> 00:32:32,109 way they work, the way they they 845 00:32:32,110 --> 00:32:34,599 perceive the world and the development 846 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,059 of knowledge and relationship to 847 00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:39,279 objects in the world and reality in 848 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,280 general? 849 00:32:43,530 --> 00:32:45,630 You mean the the what 850 00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:48,689 what do they have, what the effect they 851 00:32:48,690 --> 00:32:50,519 have on users? 852 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,589 The interfaces, how the how they form 853 00:32:52,590 --> 00:32:53,999 the picture of the world? 854 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,729 Yeah, they are. 855 00:32:55,730 --> 00:32:57,839 Oh, this 856 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:58,829 is huge. 857 00:32:58,830 --> 00:33:02,159 The impact of the interface 858 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,509 you know you've seen there. 859 00:33:03,510 --> 00:33:06,299 If you open the Justin Bieber 860 00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:08,399 app and see the picture of the 861 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,799 world through this app, 862 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,349 yeah, it is a it is a very small 863 00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:15,300 and beautiful world. 864 00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:19,230 Yeah, it is. But it's 865 00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:22,229 it's just the answer is huge. 866 00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:26,130 That's why there should be a lot of 867 00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:28,530 the look of conscious 868 00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:32,429 ness involved into creating 869 00:33:32,430 --> 00:33:33,430 software. 870 00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:37,079 OK. Thanks again, Olga, and thank you 871 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,080 all.