0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 This subtitle is not finished yet. If you are able to, please support us and watch the talk in amara for the last changes: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/863 Thanks! 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,320 *33C3 preroll music* 2 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:21,720 Karen: Thank you all for coming. We are about to start the next talk. Think big or 3 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,100 care for yourself on the obstacles to think of emergent technologies in the 4 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:32,100 field of nursing science. Our speakers are Hanna Wüller and Anne Koppenburger. They 5 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:37,860 both work on the use and development of technology in nursing. Hanna is examining 6 00:00:37,860 --> 00:00:42,780 which parts of nursing should be supported by technological solutions. She does 7 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:49,140 research on augmented reality used in nursing. Anna works on feminist science 8 00:00:49,140 --> 00:00:55,260 and technological studies, as well as critique of the political economy. She is 9 00:00:55,260 --> 00:01:01,800 the editor of a book that just came out here in 2017: The Cybernetic Capitalism 10 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:07,320 Revolution - The Emancipatory Perspective in technological change. I hope you will 11 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:15,000 listen to their talk with great interest. There is translations into English and 12 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,160 German on the website that you can find on the site. Enjoy the talk. 13 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:26,280 *applause* 14 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,901 Thank you, Karen, for this nice introduction. Welcome to our talk: Think 15 00:01:30,901 --> 00:01:37,854 big or care for yourself. On the obstacles to think of emerging technologies in the 16 00:01:37,854 --> 00:01:45,687 field of nursing science. We're very proud to talk here on CCC. My name is Anne 17 00:01:45,687 --> 00:01:54,096 Koppenburger. This is Hanna Wüller. Let me shortly say something about the 18 00:01:54,096 --> 00:02:01,230 perspective that I will take in this talk. As I did in the book that was just showed, 19 00:02:01,230 --> 00:02:07,170 I will do it again to give you time, maybe to write it down or something. I'm 20 00:02:07,170 --> 00:02:11,065 interested in the understanding of technologies, especially in the 21 00:02:11,065 --> 00:02:16,670 understandings of technological change. I am looking at how different societal 22 00:02:16,670 --> 00:02:23,469 agents relate themself within this change. And in that book, we did it with some 23 00:02:23,469 --> 00:02:30,941 different agents like DIY technology friendly initiatives, industrial players 24 00:02:30,941 --> 00:02:37,865 or trade unions. Today, we want to talk about care and the relation to technology. 25 00:02:37,865 --> 00:02:48,120 And we will do this in three steps. And I should say that it will take around 25 26 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:54,600 minutes, then we will have five minutes left. We would be happy to get one or two 27 00:02:54,600 --> 00:03:00,300 questions from the audience. But however, for those of you who will not get the 28 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:05,640 possibility to talk to us or to contribute something to our talk, please feel free to 29 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:11,580 reproach us afterwards or to check out our university web pages and get in touch with 30 00:03:11,580 --> 00:03:19,080 us. OK, the following 25 minutes we will talk about the relation of nursing, 31 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:25,020 science and technology in order to expose it as problematic. First, I would talk 32 00:03:25,020 --> 00:03:29,340 about nursing science and what we actually talk about when we say nursing science, 33 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:36,900 and I will link this to the question of what we mean when we talk in nursing 34 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:43,560 science about technology. Afterwards, Hanna will introduce you in a current 35 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:52,320 research project on augmented reality. She will talk about what is going on right now 36 00:03:52,320 --> 00:04:03,900 in this field of research. OK. I would start with the first part. I want to argue 37 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:12,780 that social struggles for making care work visible are a consequential requirement to 38 00:04:12,780 --> 00:04:18,120 conceptualize the application of different technologies and nursing science. It's 39 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,040 like that: You cannot take it for granted to talk about care. It is thanks to the 40 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,680 extraordinary work of feminist political activists, artist, writers and theorists 41 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:35,880 that today we are in the situation to talk about care work as a structured and 42 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:42,240 structuring activity at all. I mean, to talk about care apart from it as being a 43 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:49,380 labor of love. It was embedded in the new left social movements in the 1960s and 44 00:04:49,380 --> 00:04:54,840 some countries around the world that materialist feminist were struggling to 45 00:04:54,840 --> 00:05:01,680 expose care work as a notable part of social reproduction. In these efforts, the 46 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:08,700 relation between productive labor and reproductive labor has been exposed as 47 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:14,880 interdependent, as dependent on each other. And this emancipatory struggles 48 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,760 have made care work visible by the naturalizing as care work has been 49 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,100 revealed as an essential precondition of a bourgeois society's capitalist production. 50 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,760 However, being visible, of course, is not the same as being recognized and still 51 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:38,580 today care work lags of societal appreciation. Those circumstances comes, 52 00:05:38,580 --> 00:05:44,760 for example, with low wages and poor working conditions. Who wants to learn 53 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,260 more about the ongoing struggle is recommended to check out, for instance, 54 00:05:49,260 --> 00:05:54,120 the work of Helen Hester. She's a member of the technology-friendly xeno-feminist 55 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:59,520 collective Laboria Cuboniks. She's an associate professor for media and 56 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:04,260 communication at the University of West London, and she emphasizes on the task to 57 00:06:04,260 --> 00:06:10,860 continue the discussion of making care work visible. Visible as a part - as a 58 00:06:10,860 --> 00:06:16,560 notable part - of social reproduction, she proposes to rethink living arrangements, 59 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:24,900 living standards and the role of domestic technology. Therefore, she opens up a 60 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:30,720 discussion on automatisation of certain aspects of health care. Despite a lot of 61 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:36,960 controversies around this, she says the opening to automatisation is a refusal to 62 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:45,240 naturalize this work. OK, back to nursing science. Yeah, we can see how these 63 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,300 social, political, economic movements that I just have mentioned, those emancipatory 64 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:56,640 struggles, they obviously affect the theoretical horizon of nursing science, 65 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,140 which in turn influences the conceptualization of technology and care 66 00:07:01,140 --> 00:07:07,080 work settings. Speaking for a German context of nursing science, contemporary 67 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,460 nursing scientists, they are still overwhelmingly busy with the 68 00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:17,460 professionalization of health care. They are partly still engaged in establishing 69 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:22,440 nursing science as a scientific discipline that describes and develops reasonable 70 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,340 caring practice on the basis of independent nursing research. 71 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,880 Distinguishing nursing science as independent from medicine is seen as a 72 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:38,280 cornerstone in these struggles. Medicine as a life science discipline is probably 73 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,320 rightly accused of being pervaded by strongly functionalist, partly mechanic, 74 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:55,860 partly cybernetic paradigm. This formal and mathematical paradigm might be seen as 75 00:07:55,860 --> 00:08:01,620 a reflexive background against which this young and ambitious discipline has 76 00:08:01,620 --> 00:08:07,906 constituted itself, at least in the German context. Oh, sorry. By drawing on critical 77 00:08:07,906 --> 00:08:19,025 theories, nursing scientists rejected a purely medical approach to bodily 78 00:08:19,025 --> 00:08:23,725 processes, which often those medical approaches, they often comes in 79 00:08:23,725 --> 00:08:28,912 explanatory modes of, for example, quantifying rationalizing technologizing. 80 00:08:28,912 --> 00:08:35,173 Nursing practice, in contrast, is supposed to approach human beings' experiences of 81 00:08:35,173 --> 00:08:40,308 health and sickness and modes of comprehension of a fully understanding, 82 00:08:40,308 --> 00:08:45,726 for example, by phenomenologically reconstructing individual meaning and 83 00:08:45,726 --> 00:08:51,826 collective sense structures. So in comparison, medicine and nursing, medicine 84 00:08:51,826 --> 00:08:57,957 prefers to explain diseases by formalize events, a formalized thinking, a linear 85 00:08:57,957 --> 00:09:04,319 thinking. Whereas nursing science is supposed to comprehend being healthy or 86 00:09:04,319 --> 00:09:11,044 being sick by mimetic faculty, by, I say, simply and playing, by feel it. That is 87 00:09:11,044 --> 00:09:17,100 why nursing sciences draw on highly controversial constructs like intuition or 88 00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:23,736 implicit knowledge. Here, we still witness the movement of making visible what was 89 00:09:23,736 --> 00:09:28,560 made invisible before socially, politically, theoretically. Exactly at 90 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:33,240 this point, we find a particular strong rejection of different technologies and 91 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,562 care work by nursing scientists. Since technology, especially information 92 00:09:37,562 --> 00:09:42,212 technology, are conceived as means of explanation, these technologies are 93 00:09:42,212 --> 00:09:47,336 identified with the formalistic paradigm that supposedly cannot comprehend the 94 00:09:47,336 --> 00:09:52,440 implicit part of human beings' experience. Here, the different struggles that I have 95 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:59,347 mentioned meet each other. They both are targeting at onto-epistemological regimes 96 00:09:59,347 --> 00:10:06,240 of capitalizing, rationalizing technologizing. They kind of attack on 97 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:13,806 this processes just in order, which is an important work also to include the 98 00:10:13,806 --> 00:10:21,038 excluded, to qualify the quantified, and also to de-technologize the technologized. 99 00:10:21,038 --> 00:10:26,783 So just to sum up this first part, it is important to keep in mind that both the 100 00:10:26,783 --> 00:10:30,296 histories of feminists efforts to make care work visible and the academic 101 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:35,547 struggle of establishing nursing science as a scientific discipline, they are both 102 00:10:35,547 --> 00:10:41,460 interlinked. They go parallel in their ambition to emancipate themselves from 103 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:46,472 formalizing, thinking and acting. They also share basic parts of their 104 00:10:46,472 --> 00:10:52,562 theoretical foundation. As a result, an always mysteriously indetermined part of 105 00:10:52,562 --> 00:10:59,215 the human being's existence is supposed to be a crucial counterpoint of technological 106 00:10:59,215 --> 00:11:00,197 formations. *mumbles* 107 00:11:00,197 --> 00:11:08,096 But the question, of course, is what are 108 00:11:08,096 --> 00:11:13,646 those or these technological formations and how to situate nursing practices 109 00:11:13,646 --> 00:11:20,979 within them. So for this, let me tell you what technology means when we as a nursing 110 00:11:20,979 --> 00:11:26,976 science talk about it. So technology - What do we talk about it? I already said 111 00:11:26,976 --> 00:11:31,562 that the human being is depicted in different critical theories as the 112 00:11:31,562 --> 00:11:36,930 counterpart of technology. It is this image, actually, what right now seems to 113 00:11:36,930 --> 00:11:43,190 be increasingly challenged. For example, when we think of technological operations 114 00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:48,666 on micro-temporal levels as sensor technologies too, we are confronted with 115 00:11:48,666 --> 00:11:53,872 an entity that act beyond human beings' sensational perception. When we first 116 00:11:53,872 --> 00:11:59,216 think of technology's power to control us, meaning the regulating sense of control, 117 00:11:59,216 --> 00:12:04,202 then we cannot but conclude that it's not just a human being's action that makes 118 00:12:04,202 --> 00:12:08,824 sense to us. The existence and operations of contemporary smart objects are 119 00:12:08,824 --> 00:12:14,748 increasingly unraveling the image of the human as an exceptional sense maker. This 120 00:12:14,748 --> 00:12:21,405 is the technological condition that for some decades now challenges particularly 121 00:12:21,405 --> 00:12:27,459 the humanities to come to grasp with. And it was Erich Hörl who described this 122 00:12:27,459 --> 00:12:32,429 ongoing basically technologically influenced displacement of sense as a 123 00:12:32,429 --> 00:12:37,076 representational sense. He - Erich Hörl - is a professor of media philosophy at 124 00:12:37,076 --> 00:12:42,144 Lüneburg Leuphana university in Germany. He has claimed that after an organic and 125 00:12:42,144 --> 00:12:49,066 after a mechanical state of nature, we were entering a cybernetic state of nature 126 00:12:49,066 --> 00:12:56,730 by the end of the 18th century. As a heuristic, the cybernetic state of nature 127 00:12:56,730 --> 00:13:03,971 finally describes an era where objects in different disciplines - academic 128 00:13:03,971 --> 00:13:09,447 disciplines - and theories are increasingly exposed as active, 129 00:13:09,447 --> 00:13:16,411 intelligent and communicating. A growing object-orientation proves the 130 00:13:16,411 --> 00:13:24,436 environmentalization of agency, as well as even environmentalized ways of being. As a 131 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:31,964 reminder, I should shortly say that against this - this environmentalization 132 00:13:31,964 --> 00:13:38,144 of agency with those objects in our environment are just an example of this 133 00:13:38,144 --> 00:13:43,290 environmentalization - against this background, the hermeneutic tradition of 134 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:48,703 critical theories that I mentioned - for them, objects are merely conceived as 135 00:13:48,703 --> 00:13:53,647 means which the human subject intentionally uses to transform its 136 00:13:53,647 --> 00:13:59,953 reality. That means in those critical theories, human beings' tool use is 137 00:13:59,953 --> 00:14:07,221 conceptualized as a mean that serves certain ends. Of course, only the humans 138 00:14:07,221 --> 00:14:14,675 set up those ends. Tools are used in order to supplement and to cope with the 139 00:14:14,675 --> 00:14:21,322 indigence and neediness of human beings. It is in this way that technological 140 00:14:21,322 --> 00:14:27,810 artifacts are always conceived as the other side, the outside of the human. So, 141 00:14:27,810 --> 00:14:33,398 and exactly from this point - I will come to my end, to the end - and from exactly 142 00:14:33,398 --> 00:14:39,240 this point, we propose to rethink the role of technology in health care and nursing 143 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:44,695 science via a challenge to enlarge our methodological horizon, new forms and 144 00:14:44,695 --> 00:14:50,460 modes of interactions, which I just somehow point up as those 145 00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:54,540 environmentalizations, so new forms and modes and this environmentalizations, 146 00:14:54,540 --> 00:14:58,680 modes of interaction has to be conceptualized. We might see 147 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:04,380 technologically mediated relations between a patient and a nurse, which allows also 148 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:09,060 for wellbeing, as, for example, Jeannette Pols has put it in her book Care at a 149 00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:14,520 Distance from 2012. It would be ignorant to think that phenomenons like, for 150 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:20,280 instance, ubiquitous computing leave already established relations untouched. 151 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,840 Additionally, taking relational operations of technological artifacts and human 152 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:33,120 entities not into account would be somehow shortsighted and also anthropocentric. The 153 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,880 new ecological paradigm, a term that also Erich Hörl has coined, seems for us to be 154 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,500 necessarily entered also by nudging science in order to conceptualize health 155 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:47,760 care as taking place in social technological environments, not at least 156 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:53,160 to find a place from where also a capital valuarization of health care and 157 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,960 everything might be rejected, a place where technological systems might be 158 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,000 conversed and used in an emancipatory and self-determined way. So here I'd like to 159 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:09,600 finish and ask Hanna to show us how contemporary ecologies of care would look 160 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,080 like. Hanna: Now we get to the second part of 161 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,940 the presentation, which is quite different from the first one because the first one 162 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:24,060 was how we could think about technology and what's going on in nursing science. 163 00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:31,560 And when I came to Osnabrück University, I experienced that - oh, technology, you 164 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,620 should be careful. And before this, I studied business computer science, and I 165 00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:44,160 was just not used to the thinking. So it strikes me a lot. And now I'm working in a 166 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:52,440 research project where these both sides are struggling all the time. So it's like, 167 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:59,880 be careful and try to think about how to conceptualize technology and how this can 168 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:05,520 change nursing and the daily work of nurses, and at the same time, it's like 169 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:12,060 you have this research project and you have kind of the goal of creating 170 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:17,880 prototypes and evaluating them, and doing practical research, empirical research, 171 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,740 and bringing the technology into the practice and look how it's going to work. 172 00:17:23,580 --> 00:17:30,180 So kind of the argumentation to do this is the demographical change. People claim 173 00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:37,140 that this change - people are getting older and there will be not enough carers 174 00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:44,760 - that could be solved by a technological solution. Just yesterday, in the talk 175 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:50,100 about China's social credit system, we also heard just technological solutions 176 00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:54,780 for social problems that may be not the best solution, not the best way to do it. 177 00:17:56,460 --> 00:18:04,860 But we still do take a look at how could augmented reality in nursing look like. An 178 00:18:04,860 --> 00:18:10,260 augmented reality, I think the most of you may know, it's like displaying virtual 179 00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:17,040 objects into the reality - this is one of the marketing pictures. They promise you a 180 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:22,380 lot of things are possible and augmented reality can be really useful in a lot of 181 00:18:22,380 --> 00:18:26,820 fields, you can community communicate with your colleague, you are in a different 182 00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:35,460 room and still work on the same virtual artifacts. But we have the question - what 183 00:18:35,460 --> 00:18:44,820 can be into that for nursing? So we took some workshops with nurses and nursing 184 00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:53,040 managers, and we came up with a lot of use cases and currently we are examining two 185 00:18:53,040 --> 00:19:02,520 prototypes. One is on wound care management. We have this with different 186 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:11,040 devices as well. We are trying - evaluating a prototype on the Vuzix M100 187 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:16,380 and a prototype on the Microsoft HoloLens. And they both have in common that they 188 00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:22,860 should support the nurse and doing the documentation for the wound. So the nurse 189 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:28,740 can do the documentation while caring for the patient. That means the interaction 190 00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:33,600 between the nurse and the patient may change here, but it could be possible to 191 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:40,560 save some time. And it also could enhance the quality of the documentation because 192 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:46,860 the documentation is being done by the time the nurse is there and has to see the 193 00:19:46,860 --> 00:19:53,700 wound. This is what both prototypes have in common. The HoloLens prototype allows 194 00:19:53,700 --> 00:20:01,440 to support the measuring of the wound as well. With the Vuzix prototype, you have 195 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:07,560 to measure the length and the width of the wound on your own, and then you can use 196 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,540 voice commands to put it into the documentation. With the HoloLens 197 00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:19,140 prototype, this is what you see right here when you look through the glass, you get 198 00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:25,800 this image and you can make a point on the edge of the wound and a point on the upper 199 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:32,220 side edge, and the measurement is done automatically. So the number you see is 200 00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:38,820 the measured number, and the blue dots are the edges of the wound. Actually, this 201 00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:44,760 prototype cannot detect the edges of the wound automatically, but this could be 202 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:50,640 under further consideration. And the second prototype we are actually 203 00:20:50,640 --> 00:21:02,400 evaluating is on drug management. So I will show you a short video (if it's going 204 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:11,460 to work). Yeah,here you can see 10 dispensers, so dispensers for medication 205 00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:19,500 for 10 patients at the same time. It's like for morning, midday, noon and 206 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:28,320 evening, or evening and night, I'm sorry. And you can put the pill into the right 207 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:37,620 box by the app showing you how to do it. If you can see here on the smartphone, the 208 00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:45,240 app shows you how many pills you have to put into one box and you have to scan the 209 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,940 medication first, and if you scan the wrong one, you get this sign that it's the 210 00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:58,860 wrong one. So you have some way of error prevention integrated as well. For this 211 00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:04,560 prototype, you could also think of a lot of attention, like it could get the 212 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,260 information which medication has to be taken automatically, or it could detect if 213 00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:17,160 the pill is taken into the right box. But this is actually not what we have right 214 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:26,760 now. Yeah. So it looks a bit less fancy than the picture from the advertisements, 215 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:33,180 but maybe it can save nurses some time and maybe it can do some error correctness. 216 00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:40,740 And for these prototypes and some more which are currently evaluated by other 217 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:46,020 researchers or which have been evaluated, there are still a lot of challenges like 218 00:22:46,020 --> 00:22:52,620 technical challenges and the challenge how to deal with the small display size and 219 00:22:52,620 --> 00:23:02,580 short battery life, for sure. And it can be easy to focus in these details and 220 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:10,500 forget the big picture, forget what - how can we think technology? How can we think 221 00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:19,260 the interaction of the technology and the humans? And what will this do with us? So 222 00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:27,780 this is part of what the research funding policy could lead us to do. I still think 223 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:33,120 it's very interesting and maybe there will be some good things to do with this 224 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:39,180 technology, and this technology can enable us to change the structure of care work. 225 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:49,080 But it cannot be. We shouldn't forget everything else. So that's like our 226 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:55,200 conclusion. We identified basically two obstacles to think about emergent 227 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,420 technology in the field of nursing science right now. One is the way to think about 228 00:24:00,420 --> 00:24:09,540 technology these days. This is what Hanna explained. We had to struggle in nursing 229 00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:16,680 science to establish this discipline, and there had to be good arguments and the 230 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:22,470 struggle is still going on. So a lot of nursing science are still busy defending 231 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:28,740 with nursing from medicine. And sometimes this is kind of projected on defending 232 00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:34,200 nursing from technology because technology is also perceived to be naturalistic, 233 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:43,260 binary, and doesn't feel the differences in the touch or doesn't get all the small 234 00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:49,860 things. And yeah, the second thing is the research funding policy, which should lead 235 00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:58,020 you to develop technological solutions, but in the best, you know, the solution 236 00:24:58,020 --> 00:25:08,760 before you really had the question, because this is how you try to - how you 237 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:15,060 argument that you need some money to do something for this, you know, you know, 238 00:25:15,060 --> 00:25:21,720 which solution you want to have. So thank you for your attention. 239 00:25:31,740 --> 00:25:43,428 *applause* 240 00:25:43,428 --> 00:25:45,571 Herald: We have about 5 Minutes for Q&As, so there are microphones *unintelligible* 241 00:25:45,571 --> 00:25:45,653 microphones, we'll take some questions from listeners as well, *unintelligible* 242 00:25:45,653 --> 00:25:45,736 and the signal angel is 'Naughty'. We'll take questions from microphone number 4 243 00:25:45,736 --> 00:25:47,040 and then the signal angel. Audience member: Thank you for your 244 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:58,140 presentation. If I get this right, you said that there is a big research gap of 245 00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:04,860 how new technologies influence the relationships between caretakers and the 246 00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:12,060 persons who are being taken care of, who need help. And is there some research 247 00:26:12,060 --> 00:26:20,220 going on about this? Like what effects have you - caretaking technology 248 00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:25,080 introduced into nursing, yeah, on the human side? 249 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,600 Anne: Should I answer to this? Yeah, I will answer to this question. Thank you 250 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:41,940 for this. I mentioned in the last part a Dutch anthropologist who was also working 251 00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:49,020 in the field of nursing science. It was Jeanette Pols. Her research on Telecare 252 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:57,227 might be that what you're looking for. She is - to continue the work, which was 253 00:26:57,227 --> 00:27:06,518 started by Annemarie Mol, which is also quite important name in this field, and I 254 00:27:06,518 --> 00:27:12,732 recommend you to check this out because her research, for example, is one of Janet 255 00:27:12,732 --> 00:27:19,957 Pol reports. It's just, it's kind of new, and in the German context of nursing 256 00:27:19,957 --> 00:27:25,952 science, it is not really recognized, especially not in this hermeneutical 257 00:27:25,952 --> 00:27:33,910 tradition of nursing science that we refer to that we also work with. But as far as I 258 00:27:33,910 --> 00:27:43,835 can tell from her research, there is the idea of new modes of interaction and that 259 00:27:43,835 --> 00:27:50,529 the well-being, for example, of oncological patients that are cared at a 260 00:27:50,529 --> 00:27:57,643 distance by a telecare technology or by certain interactive technologies, that 261 00:27:57,643 --> 00:28:04,404 those well-being is always a question of how you measure well-being. I know, and 262 00:28:04,404 --> 00:28:09,780 she also knows this problem. But her first research results, which are presented in 263 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:16,723 that book, are not showing anything what we could - what should make us step back 264 00:28:16,723 --> 00:28:24,315 from this. So it more or less affirms that the well-being is like secured also by 265 00:28:24,315 --> 00:28:30,508 this care at a distance. Is that an answer to your question? 266 00:28:30,508 --> 00:28:35,528 Audience member: Yeah, kind of. I cannot ask another question, so thank you. 267 00:28:35,528 --> 00:28:39,341 Herald: We'll take the question from the signal angel from the internet. 268 00:28:39,341 --> 00:28:44,076 Signal Angel: Hi. OK, so which parts of nursing do you think will change first and 269 00:28:44,076 --> 00:28:47,334 how do you think elder people will adapt to that? 270 00:28:47,334 --> 00:28:52,151 Herald: And would it be OK to take two questions at a time, because we have three 271 00:28:52,151 --> 00:28:54,958 more questions left? *people talking over each other* 272 00:28:54,958 --> 00:29:01,436 Herald: Microphone number one. Audience meber: Uh, hello. Thank you for 273 00:29:01,436 --> 00:29:07,677 your talk. I'm a nurse and I see the problem - I think technology is very 274 00:29:07,677 --> 00:29:11,995 important in nursing, but I see the problem in the network between the nurses. 275 00:29:11,995 --> 00:29:17,490 When you make the research of politics, it's very difficult to reach the nurses to 276 00:29:17,490 --> 00:29:22,776 get a voice from them. Have you ideas also to find a solution for this? 277 00:29:22,776 --> 00:29:26,260 Anne: Should I answer? Shall I answer this? Thank you for this really, really 278 00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:37,389 important question because that is kind of a basic problem that we see in that field 279 00:29:37,389 --> 00:29:45,720 of nursing science that is somehow even kind of divided - we have nursing science 280 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:52,864 and we have nursing practice, even though our association is based on both. But the 281 00:29:52,864 --> 00:30:01,093 degree of organization and caring practice is extremely low, which makes it really 282 00:30:01,093 --> 00:30:10,007 hard to reach them - to reach out to them. As you said, we can see in the Lower 283 00:30:10,007 --> 00:30:18,230 Saxony, for example, a newly established Pflegekammer come out, which is an 284 00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:25,770 organization form which is kind of step forward, but it's also like controversial 285 00:30:25,770 --> 00:30:33,520 because of this centralistic structure. I guess there's a lot of work to be done, 286 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:40,070 organizing work, and we can learn, for example, from examples from Switzerland. 287 00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:46,829 They are kind of better organized. Yeah, you're right with that hint that 288 00:30:46,829 --> 00:30:58,944 this should happen on the same time, this question of organization to be really in 289 00:30:58,944 --> 00:31:06,630 the position to have a - to take a critical stance on technology and also to 290 00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:12,361 develop a self-determined way in order to say we want to use it like this and not 291 00:31:12,361 --> 00:31:18,131 like in another way, in a, like, in a formalizing way only. So it just has to be 292 00:31:18,131 --> 00:31:22,729 done. Organization of care workers. Thank you. Thank you. 293 00:31:22,729 --> 00:31:28,055 Herald: We were basically out of time. So do you have like two second replies to the 294 00:31:28,055 --> 00:31:33,210 internet question as well? Hanna: Yes. I think it's really difficult 295 00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:40,680 to answer how part of nursing is changing first. There's a lot of change going on in 296 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:48,825 doing the documentation, like on computers and not on paper. And there's a lot of 297 00:31:48,825 --> 00:31:55,803 change. And what else is going on will - may happen on financial structures as 298 00:31:55,803 --> 00:31:58,036 well. Herald: Excellent. Thank you very much for 299 00:31:58,036 --> 00:32:01,497 both the presentation and the questions. For the two questions that weren't able to 300 00:32:01,497 --> 00:32:05,399 be asked over the microphones, I'm sure you can find Hannah and Anna just next to 301 00:32:05,399 --> 00:32:08,053 the stage after the talk. Thank you very much. 302 00:32:08,053 --> 00:32:18,790 Hanna: Thank you. 303 00:32:18,790 --> 00:32:22,260 *postroll music* 304 00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:33,000 Subtitles created by many many volunteers and the c3subtitles.de team. 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